The Intergenerational Policy Dialogue Roundtable was streamed live on YouTube and recorded on 15th September 2021. Participating in the Roundtable were five policy experts, namely, Justice Hon Teresia Matheka, Chair NCAJ Special Task Force on Children Matters and Judge, High Court of Kenya; Dr Silvester Malombe, Director Policy, Partnerships and East African Community Affairs, Ministry of Education; Mr Fredrick Haga, Director, Special Needs Education, Ministry of Education; and Ms Marygorret Mogaka, Director, Department of Children Services, Ministry of Labour & Social Protection. Eight young people aged between 18 and 25 engaged the policy experts in conversation. The young people were: Cynthia and Daniel from Githogoro village in Nairobi; Brian and Milka (Tetu sub-county) and Faith Wangui and David (Kieni sub-county) - all from Nyeri county. Joining them were Faith Oliech and Mary Nginya representing Jaslika Youth.
The Roundtable was facilitated by Jaslika Associate Declan Magero and Jaslika Youth Member, Zainab Mboga.
Young Peoples 7-Point Agenda
Faith Oliech: Thank you so much Zainab. So we present the young people’s agenda for protection of children in education post Covid-19.
We, a group of concerned young people from Githogoro village, Nairobi county; Tetu and Kieni West in Nyeri county; and Jaslika would like to bring to your attention some of the issues that we feel need to be urgently addressed in order to make our schools safer and more secure for our school going sisters, brothers, cousins, friends and even our parents and teachers. We are not aware of what the policies and the laws say about these issues, whether they exist and if they do, if they are being enforced. Let me welcome David to continue with the agenda.
David Wanjiku: Thank you very much. Under the seven-point agenda, the first one is: Inclusive teaching method and curriculum is absent from classrooms, which means that many of the children from disadvantaged backgrounds and groups and those with ‘hidden’ and visible disabilities, get left behind.
Agenda #2: Drug and alcohol abuse, that is in children and young people. It is most important that some of us, young people and children, may be both users and sellers. Although this problem affects both boys and girls, more boys are involved in drug and alcohol abuse. Thank you, help me to invite Milka.
Milka Gichuhi: Thank you David. Agenda #3: Punishment and harassment. Harsh unfair punishments and bullying by our peers and harassment by the teachers in school, drive some of us to drug abuse and other bad practices and even away from continuing with our education. These punishments don’t even help us improve on our learning or our examination performance.
Agenda #4: Sexual & gender-based violence and teen pregnancies. This problem is very widespread.; It has increased even more during the Covid-19 period. Girls, maybe some are impregnated by their peers and boyfriends willingly. These pregnancies later lead to physical, emotional, psychological and sexual violence, denial of resources or access to services that lead to trauma but rape is also a big cause of the pregnancies
Agenda #5: Mental health of children and young people is widespread. In schools most teachers and parents don’t know about it so they think that the child is being deliberately rude and lazy. Thank you, help me to invite Daniel.
Daniel Okito: Thank you very much and point #6: Access to sports and recreational facilities is missing in many schools and many schools do not give opportunities to children to play and participate in sports activities though we know that they are important for our physical and mental health.
Point #7: Life skills and values teaching are missing in many schools. The school should not only be about academic performance. Not all children are good in academics but all can leave the school with skills and positive values that will help them in life.
So today, we would like to share with you our experience on these issues. We hope you shall also share with us your ideas so we can have a discussion with you and come up with a practical solution to these challenges. Thank you very much.
Young People's Closing Statement & Call for Action
Zainab: Thank you very much Dr Sheila, I would now like to invite the young people to give us their closing statement.
Cynthia: We, the young people from Githongoro, Tetu, Kieni West and Jaslika thank the Expert Panelists, Hon. Justice Matheka, Dr. Mulambe, Mr. Haga, Ms. Mogaka, Jaslika technical team for coming together and sharing with us your experiences and knowledge. We have learnt a lot from you and we hope that you have also learnt something from us. An incredible education sector is on the horizon - more than any of us can possibly imagine. We the young people are ready to take part in implementing and raising awareness on the policies that exist so that our brothers and sisters and our own children learn in a safe and secure environment. But we need you to hear, support and include our voices as you make and enforce the policies. Handing over to Brian.
Brian: Thank you Cynthia, let us proceed to Young People’s Commitment #1- As young people we commit to educate schools both public and private, secondary and primary to ensure learners are disciplined responsibly. The harsh punishments that we have experienced and many children continue to experience are illegal.
Appeal to Policy Makers:
Set up forums where we can report the teachers who are still administering such punishments on students.
Strengthen guidance and counselling departments by equipping schools with trained counsellors, so that we can be disciplined and corrected not by punishment, which only creates fear, but we can also have someone who can talk to us.
Please assign people in these schools to make sure that the correct mode of discipline is used.
Organise seminars where our teachers can be trained on alternative modes of disciplining that are helpful to the student even after he/she leaves the school. Not leaving the judiciary out, we hope that you will take appropriate actions on these teachers who break the laws by harming children.
Thank you, and I will handover to Mary.
Mary: Thank you, Brian. Young People Commitment #2 - As young people we commit ourselves to creating awareness concerning visible and invisible disabilities and inclusion of these learners in school and also at our homes. This perception that children living with disabilities are a curse will change and we as the youth will champion the change.
Appeal to Policy Makers
Create schools/institutions that are friendly for all learners. Having enough teaching and learning materials, good infrastructure, enough trained teachers among other things will make the schools child-friendly and convince children to remain in school instead of being absent often and dropping out.
Young People Commitment #3: Through the Learning Circle organised at our village we learnt about the effects of drug abuse. We will continue educating our brothers and sisters within our reach not to get involved in taking drugs.
Appeal to Policy Makers:
Please have representatives on the ground, even back there in our village and slums, who will make sure that the addicted learners are helped and taken back to school. More guidance and counselling is also required to reduce the act among the learners.
Thank you and I invite Faith Wangui.
Faith Wangui: Young People Commitment #4 - From our experience and research we know that many young girls get pregnant while in school. We commit to help them in any way possible, find time to talk to them and get them accepted back in school as they are our friends.
Appeal to Policy Makers
To the judiciary, please continue prosecuting and taking appropriate action on the perpetrators and those raping and impregnating our sisters and friends.
We hope that the Children’s Department will commit to bridging the need for the children officers in our villages and the slums and advice these officers to work with the chiefs and organize barazas to educate the people on their role in the community.
We request that all schools collaborate with the community and involve parents and employ a trained caregiver who will take care of these babies as the young girls go back to school mostly in the rural and slum areas.
We request you to help make our schools a safer place to study by training more teachers to handle the needs of students at an individual level.
Young People Commitment #5 - We as young people will participate and give our best to sporting activities but we will need your support both as our parents and the policy experts.
Appeal to Policy Makers
Ensure every school has a playground and that we as students are allowed to play, relax our minds and grow our talents.
Invest in having every school focus not only on academics but also on developing talents, life skills and positive values in childrens.
Over to you Brian.
Brian: Thank you, now let's proceed to Young People Commitment #6. We have learnt that our mental health is as important as our physical health. We will not be afraid to approach our teachers as well as the guidance counsellor in schools to talk about the issues affecting us both at school and at home.
Appeal to Policy Makers
We hope you will assign trained counsellors in schools and train our teachers to enable them to help us accordingly when we approach them with a problem.
Thank you and back to you Zainab.
Zainab: Thank you very much Brian. I would now like to invite Declan to give an opportunity for our policy makers to give their closing statements.
Closing Statements: Policy Experts
Declan: Thank you very much Zainab, I would like to give a brief chance to our policy experts to give us their closing remarks and then we will pass it on to Professor Ahmed Ferej.
Justice Matheka: Thank you Declan. Let me just begin by appreciating each one of you for being here with us and for sharing with us. I think for me, I am proud to know that young people out there are awake and conscious of what is happening in their community, among their peers, in their families and their willingness to learn and explore and find solutions to the issues that are bothering their families, siblings and colleagues and the society at large.
“I am proud to know that young people out there are awake and conscious of what is happening in their community, among their peers, in their families and their willingness to learn and explore and find solutions to the issues that are bothering their families, siblings and colleagues and the society at large.”
As a judge, as a member of the family of Kenya, though I must say that as a Judiciary, you are aware we are committed to ensuring that justice is delivered to the persons who come before us. Just for you to be aware that to that end even having noticed that within our systems there are gaps, there are challenges that make it difficult for young people and children to access justice that is why the NCAJ set up the Special Task Force on Children Matters.
In this Task Force, all the stakeholders who deal with children including DCS - as you heard from Marygorret, the police, probation, the prisons are involved and on the ground you will find so again the stakeholders come together to discuss this and at the moment the Task Force is considering how children and young people can actually be members of the committees because like some of the issues that you have raised here, within the locality of their Court Users Committees. So we are looking at how the children can be represented in those committees.
“At the moment the Task Force is considering how children and young people can actually be members of the committees because like some of the issues that you have raised here, within the locality of their Court Users Committees. So we are looking at how the children can be represented in those committees.”
It is not an easy thing but I think there is something that can be done and seeing that you are already conscious of what is going on, it will be easy to find out how to do this.
As I leave, I just want to say that just know that the laws are in place and I would just urge you, now that you have come out to think about these issues, we have mentioned certain legislations and certain sections of the law, if that is your interest, just go and read those laws and find out because the internet is very good, go and read so that way you will be able to be aware and then do not keep this to yourself. You are an ambassador of sort, you can talk to your friends, colleagues, family and just spread the good word so that this awareness that we are talking about, you can speak and because you are a young person among other young people, you can be a positive influence while talking to them about the issues that you found out and some of the solutions that we have suggested and also find out what needs to be done. I wish you well and I look forward to any other discussions that we may have and any questions that you may have, I will be able to answer, thank you.
Declan: Thank you Justice Matheka, Dr Silvester?
Dr. Mulambe: I just want to say thank you very much. It was quite an opportunity for all of us. Many times, we imagine that we know it all but I think it was quite interesting to learn from the young people and of course to engage with the young people.
“It was quite an opportunity for all of us. Many times, we imagine that we know it all but I think it was quite interesting to learn from the young people and of course to engage with the young people.”
I think that some of the issues they may be having, I believe a good fraction of them have been answered and just like my colleague Justice Matheka has said, they also need to make an effort and read some of the documents which are available.
“They also need to make an effort and read some of the documents which are available.”
Otherwise from my end, I look forward to further engagements as we move on and may God bless you all. All the best to everyone.
Declan: Thank you so much Dr Sylvester. Marygorret?
Marygorret Mogaka: Thank you, Magero. The young people from Nyeri, Githogoro and Jaslika who have organized this, the moderators, my fellow panelists and all the participants who have been listening to us online, I just want to say thank you for this opportunity to interact with the young people. The interaction has been very positive and I have learned a lot from them. I hope they have also learned something from us. I just want to say that we now expect them to be carriers of this message to their families, siblings and friends.
“We now expect them to be carriers of this message to their families, siblings and friends.”
You notice that I have been talking about the families so much; that is because families are the foundation of a nation and we really believe in families in the Department of Children Services. On the commitments that the young people have made, they should not just be statements, they should be actions on your part.
“On the commitments that the young people have made, they should not just be statements, they should be actions on your part.”
So I wish all the best and I hope that we will have another interaction like this. Thank you so much.
The Conversation
Zainab: Thank you very much Declan. So going into our first agenda item, it's on inclusive teaching methods. Inclusive teaching methods, methodologies and curriculum are absent from many classrooms. This means that many children from disadvantaged backgrounds and groups and those with hidden and visible disabilities get left behind. Faith, you are a young person who is a special needs teacher and also a sign language expert. Can you please break down what you mean by this agenda item and what are these hidden disabilities and why do children from disadvantaged backgrounds get left behind in classrooms and practices?
Faith O: Thank you so much Zainab. I am glad to say that I am a trained teacher and I have been to two schools and I want to report that the schools that I have been to there were only two agriculture teachers and two mathematics teachers. These are schools for the deaf. So this school had only one mathematics teacher and one agriculture teacher before I went in. So again the kind of infrastructure that I found in those schools are not good enough to make a learner friendly environment or learner friendly school. When I went to my primary school, I really liked it. It was in our village. So I remember when it was time for break, we could run to go to the latrines [which were in] a bad condition. You are in there and the door is not in a good condition and you cannot even hold it, so you have to ask someone to hold it for you. And I was surprised during the research that it's still something that is going on and the infrastructure in these schools are not in good condition.
“So I remember when it was time for break, we could run to go to the latrines [which were in] a bad condition. You are in there and the door is not in a good condition and you cannot even hold it, so you have to ask someone to hold it for you. And I was surprised during the research that it’s still something that is going on and the infrastructure in these schools are not in good condition.”
When it comes to inclusion of learners with disabilities - and as Zainab and even as Mr Fred Haga said - invisible disabilities, I am not on a wheelchair but I have a disability you cannot see and tell that I have a disability. I can give an example like dyslexia, or Dyscalculia, or ADHD. You will have to follow me and see that I have some issues in calculation of simple mathematics or maybe I cannot read simple words. So when I read, I kind of interchange the letters and all those that are not included. And I was taking a walk around because I am in the special needs field, I wanted to see if the teachers really know what learning disability is and I was surprised that in most of the schools if I say the word, “I am here to train you guys on how to include learners with disabilities” they are like, “No, we don’t enroll those learners here because we cannot take care of them”. So that’s the kind of reply that I was getting in most of these schools. So it shows that the teachers in regular schools - most of them are not aware that we have learners with invisible disabilities. From the research, I want to give you an example. There is this mom, who is partially blind. So she wanted the son to be admitted in one of the regular schools if that was possible and she walked around and the answer that she was getting was, “He is blind and we cannot accommodate him”. So he went on ahead and tried one of the special schools, that is, the school for the blind and she was told that, “We only cater for learners who are totally blind in this school”. So where will the son be placed?
“There is this mom, who is partially blind. So she wanted the son to be admitted in one of the regular schools if that was possible and she walked around and the answer that she was getting was: “He is blind and we cannot accommodate him”. So he went on ahead and tried one of the special schools, that is, the school for the blind and she was told that, “We only cater for learners who are totally blind in this school”. So where will the son be placed?”
Because there are such cases where learners cannot be enrolled in regular schools and they cannot be in the special needs schools. So my question is, what are the strategies put in place to make sure that learners with mild disabilities are in regular schools and learners with hidden disabilities like learning disabilities affect them? My second question is, what is the policy saying when it comes to infrastructure, teaching and learning materials, and availability of enough teachers in schools advocating for learner friendly exposure? Also I can say this, what I have seen, the more remote the school, the less the resource. Thank you Zainab.
Zainab: Thank you very much Faith, and I would like to start with Mr Fredrick to respond.
Fred H: Thank you Zainab and thank you Faith, for raising those issues. This country, starting from the constitution, enshrines the right of every child in this country to education because education is regarded as a fundamental right and everybody is entitled to that right.I hear you, when you give specific examples that you have come across and like I already said, the policy of the Ministry of Education, that is the policy of the government is that as much as possible, learners with disabilities should learn alongside their peers without disabilities. However, in situations where that [is not possible], then they are taken to special schools. The population that you are talking about, those with specific learning disabilities, you are right in that population you may not be able to observe and see the disability.
Actually, what the Ministry does, even for those disabilities that are visible, we don’t just look at them and make a decision that this particular learner has this or that disability because we are not interested in labeling anybody. It does not help anybody if I label somebody blind, or deaf. The interest and concern of the Ministry is determining what specific limitation a learner has so that information is used to inform the intervention that is going to be administered or subjected to that particular learner. That means, and I want to use the example of visual disability.
I did not say this in the beginning, but yes I am a person with visual disability. If I am to go to a school, I will be taken to an assessment center that will find out what my barrier is. If it is determined that I have a visual disability, they will want to know the extent to which I have that disability. Do I have low vision, like the case learner you talked about or do I have total visual loss.If I have low vision, then they will want to find out, how best do we make sure that this learner accesses education and sometimes the response is very simple, I might just be asked to sit at the front of the classroom or I might just be given the glasses. Now, the case that you talked about is a bit strange because we do have lots of learners with low vision in both special schools and the regular schools and appropriate intervention is administered because this country has lots of teachers who have training in special needs.
You may or you may not have heard of the Kenya Institute of Special Education popularly known as KISE which trains teachers who mainly are deployed to primary schools and yes, the first priority is usually given to the special schools, then those schools with units, and integrated programmes. But you will also find a lot of those teachers who have been trained in the area of learning disabilities in regular schools. I agree with you when you say that some of those schools may not have teachers with the requisite training that will enable them to support some of those learners and that’s why the government is focusing on training more and more teachers and giving them special skills so that they are able to support learners with different disabilities in this country.
“I agree with you when you say that some of those schools may not have teachers with the requisite training that will enable them to support some of those learners and that’s why the government is focusing on training more and more teachers and giving them special skills so that they are able to support learners with different disabilities in this country.”
And for Faith who says she is a trained teacher, you may know that almost all training programmes in this country at least have a small component that touches on learners with disabilities.It may not be adequate in certain situations, but at least it sensitizes the teachers that we have very diverse learners in this country and in whichever classroom you step into, believe you me, you are going to find a learner with a special need.
That is the intention of including that in the component of training for teachers in this country. So the strategy that we are using as a Ministry is trying to build the capacity of the assessment centres - actually the full name is Education Assessment and Resource Centers abbreviated as EARC so that those learners who are suspected to have certain limitations, can be assessed and maybe the specific limitations determined so that even as they go to school, it is known that this learner will require this kind of approach but also the training of teachers and the fact that they are being deployed not just to the special schools like I said, but also those schools with special units and integrated programmes. And the dream of an institution especially like KISE is that we will be able to have at least a teacher with special training in every school in this country.
We are not yet there but gradually and slowly we are moving towards that point. My other comment is that we have policy and legislation that touch not just on the rights of the persons with disabilities but also those that outline what needs to be done to ensure that no one is left behind in the education process. I already mentioned that the Constitution already establishes the right of the persons with disabilities but we also have the Persons with Disabilities Act of 2003 section 18 clearly articulates the right of that person with disability and says no learner shall be turned away from any school or any learning institution on account of his/her disability. The school that you have talked about, by turning away a learner on account of his/her disability - that is against the law. What the school should do, if it feels it's not able to support that learner, it can always liaise with the Ministry of Education and we will find out how best that learner should be supported.
“The school that you have talked about, by turning away a learner on account of his/her disability - that is against the law. What the school should do, if it feels it’s not able to support that learner, it can always liaise with the Ministry of Education and we will find out how best that learner should be supported.”
In the Ministry of Education, we have the sector policy for learners and trainees with disabilities and it adds its voice to the right of the learners with disabilities to access education and even talks of inclusive pedagogical approaches to make sure that every single learner is able to be taught properly and access education. Thank you so much.
Zainab: Thank you very much for your detailed insight. And now I would like to ask Mary, who was also involved in the Jaslika research in Nyeri, do your findings support what Faith Oliech is saying, or do you have any other dimension?
Mary: Thank you Zainab. So from the research that we did both in Nyeri and in Nairobi,the issue of children being excluded also emerged where children are also excluded by how the teachers teach us. For example, there is this discussion that I remember we had and we were asking the students about how their teachers used to teach and the students were telling us that the teacher used to divide the students into groups and those who are smart learners and they understand easily are put in one group and the others in the other groups those who are slow learners in the other groups. Now before the teacher starts, he comes into class and says, “ Everyone move to your group” and now when he is teaching, its like he is teaching those who are at the front because they were understanding better and the ones who were at the back.
“The teacher used to divide the students into groups and those who are smart learners and they understand easily are put in one group and the others in the other groups; those who are slow learners in the other groups. Now before the teacher starts, he comes into class and says, “ Everyone move to your group” and now when he is teaching, its like he is teaching those who are at the front because they were understanding better and the ones who were at the back.”
They told us they used to sleep because they lost interest in the subject. And for example, one of them was telling us that on Friday afternoon if they have a double chemistry, as the teacher who was doing that and after lunch, they take their lunch and sneak out of school and go to other places and maybe get involved in drugs. Well, for example, they are out there - they meet a young girl that is coming from school and probably raped the girl and then the boy is arrested.
Now you see, this case has come from an issue at class and has been dragged all the way to Judiciary. So my question is to the policy experts, from where you are sitting, what is it that can be done that should have been done at the school level to avoid this case from accelerating to all these? And also the second question, when Madam Mogaka was introducing herself, she said that she is in charge of taking children and putting them in homes. And for those who are in conflict with the law they go to remands and rehabs. So my question is, when this child is taken to either the rehabs or to remand, what happens to their education when they are there? Thank you.
Zainab: Go ahead?
MaryGorret: About the exclusion, and how teachers are grouping children, I would call that discrimination and it is not allowed and non-discrimination is one of the principles in our Constitution, also in the Children’s Act and in most of our legislation. So children are supposed to be treated the same and they should not be discriminated against on anything including on their tribe, their race, their performance in school and so it's not right for the teachers to do that.
“So children are supposed to be treated the same and they should not be discriminated against on anything including on their tribe, their race, their performance in school and so it’s not right for the teachers to do that.”
I think the issue is the training of the teachers and they need to be properly trained and not just in the subjects but also on how to handle the learners and also their attitudes so that they have the right attitude when they are dealing with children.
We also need to create awareness among them on the laws that protect children starting with the Constitution. When you read the Constitution, article 53 is about children and how to deal with them and the National Children Policy looks at the child in terms of the four pillars which are survival, how children are able to survive after birth, development that includes education and recreation, protection and participation.
“When you read the Constitution, article 53 is about children and how to deal with them and the National Children Policy looks at the child in terms of the four pillars which are survival, how children are able to survive after birth, development that includes education and recreation, protection and participation.”
Now coming to the rehabilitation schools and the remand homes - no, before I move there- let me just comment on how that situation in the classroom translates into a child in conflict with the law and whether this child is supposed to be punished for what was not basically their mistake - it was a systemic mistake that was done at the classroom level. While we accept that the situation in the classroom leads to some children getting in conflict with the law, we also realize that children have responsibilities and they also need to understand that actions have consequences and the values that you talked about in your point 7.
They need to have these values that I am not supposed to do something like this and I am not supposed to defile another child. However, the way I am treated in school we need to have life skills on how to deal with the challenges not just to go with the flow and how to deal with the peer pressure.
On rehabilitation, what happens to the children and their education, in rehabilitation schools we have many programmes and formal education is one of the programmes. So what happens when a child in conflict with the law has been committed by a court of law to rehabilitation, we take them to what we call Assessment and Classification and Placement Centre. We have two such centres, one is for boys and the other is for girls. The girls one is at Kirigiti in Kiambu and the boys is at Getathuru in lower Kabete in Nairobi.
So what happens at the centre, the children are assessed and there is an assessment tool. They are assessed on education behaviour, what their interest is so that they are properly placed, and also there are risk levels because our rehabilitation schools are based on the risk levels. So we have the lower risk, medium risk and high risk so that they are placed well. In the education assessment they are assessed to see where they will fit, in which class. If they are not able to fit in formal education, then we have vocational training and nowadays we have new programmes - like hairdressing, bakery, soap making, IT - all those skills now are being taught in the rehabilitation schools.
The other programme is counselling, which all the children there go through and behaviour modification so they get education. The challenge is with the remand homes where the children are not supposed to stay longer in the remand and they are only there if they have not been able to be given bail or bond to follow their cases while at home. So what happens at the remand homes, the classes are put together. They will put the lower primary in one class and the upper primary in another class and actually we realized that this is not right for the children. So we have been working with the Ministry of Education to see how we can have education continue in the remand homes.
The challenge is that the child may be there for three days, two weeks or one month or three months and some even stay for a year. There is that gap and there is even a case where the Ministry of Education and our department were taken to court and we were supposed to come up with an education programme in the remand homes which we are working on. Thank you very much Zainab. I hope I have been able to answer you Mary. Thank you.
Zainab: Thank you very much. I would like to invite Honourable Matheka just for a few minutes, if you have any comments .
Hon Matheka: Thank you very much Zainab, thank you very much Mary and my namesake I think you have said the most of it. You know the story that Mary has given. I think it is the story of most of the children who get themselves to be in conflict with the law. My belief and I am sure the belief of many people is that school is the best place for children. Children should not be in court, they should not be in the court system and they should not be in any other places that were not meant for children.
That is why Mary is saying that up to today since independence, there are some programmes that don’t exist because it was not expected that we would have children in remand, you know, or such like things. So the thing is that it is the story of our society that for a child to commit an offence, for a child to be delinquent that is sneak away from school it starts from the community where that teacher comes from, where that child comes from, where the victim of that offense comes from. And you would expect that the training that the teacher has gotten will make him/her realize that if they don’t care for that child’s needs in school, the child will become delinquent and run away from school. So that’s the beginning.
For me, for example, when I look at the Basic Education Act and I look at the Guiding Principles, I think I will refer to section 4 - it's very clear there what is expected when a child is at school, what are the Guiding Principles of our basic education. That a child will be given education regardless of the infrastructure and everything else, these are principles and values that are supposed to be inculcated in the teacher so that the teacher transfers them to the child.
“When I look at the Basic Education Act and I look at the Guiding Principles, I think I will refer to section 4 - it’s very clear there what is expected when a child is at school, what are the Guiding Principles of our basic education. That a child will be given education regardless of the infrastructure and everything else, these are principles and values that are supposed to be inculcated in the teacher so that the teacher transfers them to the child.”
And now when the child is in school, they get those so that when this child, for example, has run away from school, and I am saying this because at the end of the day when we are deciding where this child will go, those are the factors that we look at. Do you understand me? That’s why I am talking about the society because at the end of the day when the child ends up in my court, I have to go back to Marygorret and ask her the children officer, give me a social background of this child so that is the story that will come to me for me to decide where to take this child or how to deal with this child.
Unfortunately, the child still has to go back to that community, from the remand home, the rehabilitation school and he/she has to go back to the same community so we have to deal with that.
What I want to say is that one, that act of discrimination as was said by Mr Fredrick and my sister here is an act that is contrary to the law. If you look at the Basic Education Act , the teacher is in violation of the law and they can be charged with an offence for doing that.
Now what can we do because that’s the thing at the end of the day what can we do? What can we do to stop this child because even as we send these children to these institutions, we also want to look at prevention, how do we ensure that this child does not get into the system? We have to go back to the same community and we have seen the problem is the teacher.
How do we get these teachers to understand that the right to education for this child is not just something written on paper? That it is the teacher to ensure the child learns and if the child becomes delinquent, he is the adult to summon the parent because what happens when a child runs away from the school, the teacher has the next responsibility under the law to summon the parents and say, “ Look your child has not been coming to school; where is he/she?” If the parent of the child is at home, the parent has also a legal responsibility and a parental responsibility to ensure that the child has come to school. In fact if you look at the Basic Education Act, it is also an offense for your child to stay at home and the parent can be accountable and get imprisoned if the children don’t go to school.
All I am saying is that even before the law lands on these people, there is so much for us to do for these children. It is actually for us who now become aware of these gaps to find solutions and like I have said it is to make the teachers aware of their responsibility as teachers and if that was not taught in school, they were just taught about teaching then we have to come back and show them what does the law require of you? What does the constitution require of you? What does the Children’s Act say about the education of a child? What does the Constitution say? So that with all these put together, when they are delivering their content in class, they are also aware that they have another level of responsibility for this child because the values that we are talking about and not only are they given in home but they are given in school. In fact that’s what the Education Act says that apart from learning other things, children are supposed to get knowledge to learn the values to be good citizens and therefore at the end of the day, as much as something that happens in the classroom can lead to all this then we always have to go back to the community.
Finally, for the child offender who ends up now in the remand home and in the rehabilitation school - in fact Marygorret will tell you - that it is not the best place for a child. Despite the fact that we sent the children there, those are not the best places for children. They are supposed to be in school, the normal school and we are supposed to do everything we can before we can say that the child should go there. The Constitution says that it should be the last resort to send a child there so it should not be the first thing for us to do. So all these kids - what they do - we should all come back, look at every child, find a solution for them before they end up in those institutions. I hope I have assisted in one way or the other. Thank you.
Zainab: Thank you very much Honorable Matheka, moving forward according to the Concerned Worldwide 2021 Report, a small minority of respondents indicated that children can access remote education through radio, but only 6% online, class only 4%, educational TV 6% and a vast majority are left without any resources. I want to pose this question to Daniel who comes from Githogoro village. How did remote learning affect children in your village during the Covid closure?
Daniel: Thank you very much Zainab. In our village at Githogoro, many parents are unable to access or even purchase digital learning equipment. And also many parents believe that learning online will spoil their children because others don’t even know about online learning and most of them don’t own these equipment and this really affects the children who are school-going and they end up collecting scrap metals all day, playing football all day and also roaming in the village just waiting for the schools to reopen. And also their parents don’t encourage them to do these things because they don’t have the equipment to make their kids learn.
“Many parents are unable to access or even purchase digital learning equipment. And also many parents believe that learning online will spoil their children because others don’t even know about online learning and most of them don’t own these equipment and this really affects the children who are school-going and they end up collecting scrap metals all day, playing football all day and also roaming in the village just waiting for the schools to reopen. And also their parents don’t encourage them to do these things because they don’t have the equipment to make their kids learn.”
Zainab: Okay, thank you Daniel. So during the research, done by Jaslika, there was a case where students came back from Covid-19 and found it very hard to concentrate due to the influence of drug and alcohol abuse. However, prior to Covid-19, drug and alcohol abuse was already identified by both the young people and teachers as a serious problem in school.
It appears that more boys than girls are involved in using and selling drugs and illicit brew such as chang’aa. In another research done by Jaslika, we also found out that one school boy was actually using chang’aa to bribe his peers into voting for him as the school president. David, how has your experience been in school? Have you encountered any drug problems?
David: Thank you very much. I am David. My experience in school about drugs was when I was back in high school. There was this non-teaching staff who used to come and meet [us]. Because he was a shoemaker in high school and because he had a free gate pass most of the students used him to bring drugs in school and so when we took our shoe to be made, he used to put drugs in the shoe and then give back to the students. That is how drugs got into our school and after the students took these drugs they distributed them to the other students.
“There was this non-teaching staff who used to come and meet [us]. Because he was a shoemaker in high school and because he had a free gate pass most of the students used him to bring drugs in school and so when we took our shoe to be made, he used to put drugs in the shoe and then give back to the students. That is how drugs got into our school and after the students took these drugs they distributed them to the other students.”
Another way the students used to bring in drugs. I remember in our high school we were allowed to come with the Blue Band, Cocoa, Peanut Butter and so they were packed in those things. They put these drugs inside those containers and it was hard for the teachers because you cannot imagine - and at this point you find that the drugs are in our school and that was my experience back in high school about drugs and alcohol abuse.
My question is, are there policies that are put in place to make sure that these drugs are in school or are there policies that are used to help students that are expelled from school? Sorry, maybe I can repeat that question. Are there any policies that are used to help students other than expelling them from school after they are caught with drugs? My other question, is there any guidance and counselling for students who are caught using drugs in the government. Thank you very much.
Zainab: Cynthia, what about your perspective?
Cynthia: So, about drugs, there is this friend of mine back in high school and they started using drugs. After some time, they were caught with the school and he was expelled and his letter was badly written such that no other school could accept him. So, he stayed at home all this while without going to school and later on he changed and he stopped using drugs but since it’s late because his expulsion letter had been badly written and no other school could accept him. My question is, can such students be given another chance of going back to school after they have changed and stopped using drugs?
Zainab: Thank you very much Cynthia. Mary, you are also involved in the research. So what does the research say in Nyeri?
Mary: Thank you Zainab. So according to the research findings, and it was confirmed also by the Learning Circles that we did, some of the drugs that these children sneak into school - like they would say - are alcohol, chang’aa, bhang, cigarettes and miraa.
“It was confirmed also by the Learning Circles that we did, some of the drugs that these children sneak into school - like they would say - are alcohol, chang’aa, bhang, cigarettes and miraa.”
When Justice Matheka was talking about the social background of a child she mentioned the community in general. Now my question is, how can the school involve the community because these drugs are coming from the community. How can the school involve the community to stop these drug abuse from coming into schools?. Thank you.
Zainab: I will give a chance to Daniel Okito. You have raised your hand?
Daniel: Yeah, sorry I didn’t finish so in my village most of the learners did not access it since most of the parents cannot afford them and others don’t even know the importance of it. My question is, how can the government or the Ministry of Education ensure that all the students receive and access remote learning?- Daniel O. Youth Panelist, Githogoro Village, Nairobi
Zainab: Thank you very much everyone. I would now like to open the question to the floor and I would like to invite Dr Silvester Mulambe to respond. [silence] Okay I will move onto Justice Teresia Matheka, you can respond to that too
Hon Matheka: Okay, thank you very much. I think the question of drugs - okay, first maybe the question of remote education, I think that is one of the things [inaudible] sorry. So we know even before Covid-19, that the way our schools are - both primary and secondary- they do not have the same infrastructure.
I think it is Faith who said that she is aware and she is so excited. And we know that because we have been to schools, and we have been to schools ourselves - primary and secondary - one we know about the infrastructure so when someone is asked and we grew up also in homes where there were no radios. So even today, it would not be a shock that another family does not have a radio or a TV. When they are asked to get a TV from the school, how many places even have electricity, you know? So it is true that by doing that it was really unfair and in my view, those actual discrimination, open discrimination that the Ministry of Education ought to have looked at that before they concluded that everyone will access the education from the radio, the TV or wherever it is that they were saying that they get it from. Because I know that there were people who were completely unable to do that and I agree that not going to school raises the level of delinquency in children because they are just there and the parents are busy trying to find food for them and they have nothing else to do and in many of these homes, many of these villages, people don’t stay at home to watch TV in the morning. Everybody goes out.
So, there is no one to take care of the children in the house and they have to go out there and do their things, play and whoever they meet there. Maybe selling drugs or doing other things so we as a society, also contribute to the delinquency of these children and now that brings me to the issue of the drugs and the alcohol. Again it is a serious problem.
I remember as a magistrate at one time, there was a lady who was brought and it was the second time kind of and I cannot remember which station I was in, but the first time was her plea that she has young children, she was an IDP and she was caught by some bhang and I think she was given a fine which she paid and went. The second time, she was brought in and the record was brought and again she was just selling bhang to young people in the IDP camp and again her story was, “ I have children, I am single mother, I am an IDP” and that kind of thing and I asked for that social enquiry report. It is true; it was confirmed but this was the community, she was arrested and she came back and I sent her to prison for five years despite the fact that she had those five children and I remember she went on appeal and the High Court just said that she had to serve her sentence. But that is one person; how many of those people who actually sell the drugs you see you are talking about, this kid who brings chang’aa to school and there is an actual adult who has the responsibility, bringing this bhang to school or whatever drugs to school when children trust him you see.
For him to be a staff member in the school, he is supposed to be a trusted person, an adult who should know that these children are here for a certain purpose. So again it comes to us, what values do we have and what values are we giving to our children, which means that even us, as the adults in the society, you, young people need to remind us and you have to keep reminding us that there are certain things that we are doing wrong so that if you are aware of what is expected of us, for example in that school maybe if the kids were actually aware that this is wrong those who would have been able to raise them would have said that this person needs to be sacked and they raise issues and say that he has to go home and something like that.
What policies are in place, today I was reading we call it the Bhang Act because the name is so long but it's the law that outlaws all forms of drugs from bhang to heroine everything and provide for the punishments and one of the things that it provides for, is rehabilitation centres for those people who get addicted to drugs.
The Children’s Act itself, says that if a child is found to have been exposed to drugs, they ought to have been taken to a rehabilitation centre that means a rehab centre that is run by the government but the most interesting thing is that there is supposed to be an advisory council. You know a certain council under that Psychotropic and Narcotics Control Act - it's that long. An advisory council, to deal with issues of addiction. It has never been set up since that law was passed. We have had NACADA in place. I don't know the effect of NACADA. Maybe you people when you are doing your research you can find out whether it has any impact on young people and the issues of drugs but the fact that you are raising it means maybe you have not felt it. So I agree with you that there is a gap and one of the things that has happened is that the stress levels for everyone have gone up, for certain reasons and children are finding themselves abusing drugs and alcohol very early but as a society, I want to say even as the government that gap has not been addressed. I don’t know maybe Marygorret is aware of a rehab place for children who abuse drugs; I am not aware.
When I worked in Nakuru as a children’s magistrate, there were so many kids who were sniffing glue and you know that bottle that they hang around their neck and chest region and they would say because they have come to my court so many times, we became friends. So when we meet because we would take them, put them in remand homes for some time, take them to rehab and they come back and they continue because we have not dealt with the problem itself. So, they will meet me and they will hide the bottle and greet me like that and you are like what do you do. So it's a serious problem. We need a solution and I think that now that young people are becoming aware of this and you see it is a problem that is affecting you a lot, you need to tell us.
I saw a certain policy which I had never heard of before on drug addiction but I don’t know what effect it has. Maybe Marygorret will tell us about it. But as far as the law is concerned, the law is very harsh because if you are found in possession bhang or any other drug, you could go to prison for ten years or more and if there is evidence that you were trafficking and you are selling those drugs and you are above 18, you can go to prison for life.
“But as far as the law is concerned, the law is very harsh because if you are found in possession bhang or any other drug, you could go to prison for ten years or more and if there is evidence that you were trafficking and you are selling those drugs and you are above 18, you can go to prison for life.”
That is what the law says but the other part where the law is supposed to help you if you are addicted to get rehabilitation and things like that, those systems are not in place. So, you are on your own. So the only thing that I can say is don’t do drugs and if you know someone doing them try to get them not to continue because the adults are not helping you to get off the air. I know there are organizations out there like the NGOs, CBOs and those I know there are those who help these people because when I worked in Mombasa, we had one or two who would even follow their client to court if their client was arrested, they would come and say this is our client, give him/her back we continue with the rehab program and we would do that, we had a very good working relationship. So there is a gap there, the policies.
Expulsion from school: In fact what the law says is that before you are expelled, the school should have done everything and that should have been the last resort and we should exhaust all the other measures. But I know that in many schools on the first offense, you are already out of school so you need to know what the law says even when those things happen you can actually talk about them.
“In fact what the law says is that before you are expelled, the school should have done everything and that should have been the last resort and we should exhaust all the other measures. But I know that in many schools on the first offense, you are already out of school so you need to know what the law says even when those things happen you can actually talk about them.”
Zainab: Thank you very much, Director Marygorret, you have the floor?
Director Children Services: Thank you. I just want to say that our children are growing up with a lot of mixed messages. At one hand, we have us as parents, telling you that drug abuse is wrong, premarital sex is wrong. Most of the parents, but on the other side, we have other influencers, we have people who are in entertainment, we have some leaders, you hear people who say how drugs like bhang can help you perform well in school.
We are giving our children these mixed messages and we confuse them. So I was just supporting Justice Matheka that actually, it is us adults who are not guiding the children and the young people well by passing the proper values. Then on the issue of expelling, it is not right that children are expelled because it's like now you cannot tell their future and you actually kill them when they are that young.
The schools should do everything possible to ensure that they deal with the issues while protecting the other children. The policy that I know is in place is that of guidance and counselling, but the major issue is that the teachers who have been given the role of guiding and counselling in schools also have other roles and that is very difficult to do because you cannot gain trust of the students in counselling if you have other roles, especially the discipline role. So the Ministry of Education needs to separate those roles. They either have counselors doing only counselling and not teaching or being in charge of discipline or they have visiting counselors where they bring teachers from another school to come and counsel these ones in these other schools because of the dual relationships. Thank you.
Zainab: Thank you. Now there is a hand from Dr Sheila. You have the floor.
Dr Wamahiu: Thank you Zainab. I was just thinking that there is a new policy that has been launched by the Ministry of Education. In fact, I can see the policy director’s hand, maybe you can give him the floor to talk about it a little bit?
Zainab: Yes, director, you have the floor.
Director Policy, Dr Mulambe: Thank you very much, I have really had a break and I think the moderator maybe you had forgotten me but here I am. I just wanted to start by commenting on the first agenda and actually really commend my colleagues on the issue of inclusion, I think well said and done. All my colleagues have really covered that particular topic well. That there are laws and policies that guard against exclusion starting from the Constitution itself that makes education a right. And of course compulsory, followed by our Basic Education Act and you find that this basic education is actually a right. So a teacher turning away a student because of issues of disability should not arise and I think I support what my colleagues have said. We are also signatories to the sustainable development goals - the SDGs - where SDG 4, talks about provision of quality education and training. For all you know, you underline the word, also that as we operate in the Ministry of Education, we are ensuring that we are leaving no one behind regardless of the circumstances and we have put so many measures in place. One is the Guidance & Counselling policy which my colleague Marygorret is talking about which we are working on and I think that I will talk about that later. We are trying to mentor these students and we are trying to make sure that they don’t get into drugs and substance use. We are trying to make sure that they are taken care of in all ways so that we have no one left behind. We even have a re-entry policy, or rather the school re-entry guidelines which now is a bit broader in terms of the issues that it addresses.
Previously, we were operating on a circular that only talked about the girls who get pregnant should be allowed to give birth and then get back but we have now expanded it and you know, come alive to the fact that there are many reasons that can make both boys and girls to fall out of school, and that when they fall out of school, we have a way of bringing them back and we have a way of addressing their unique issues so that they can be able to get into the mainstream.
We are also working with other partners to make sure that even those who had dropped out and had even given up, we have what we call catch-up programmes under non-formal education where learners who had even fallen out of school completely and were forgotten and they had turned into adults, are also still being assisted. Under the adult and continuing education programmes that we have, which we run. And of course we also have partners who are taking care of these ones just to make sure that no one is left behind whereby those learners who had dropped out are taken through what we call a catch-up programmes addressing literacy and numeracy just to bring them to speed you know in the direction of counting and adding and of course reading and writing and thereafter the same organizations are providing pathways for these learners. Some of them get their way back to school particularly when they want. We will still allow them to get back to school. Some of them take the path of entrepreneurship where we teach them to be successful entrepreneurs like dressmakers and so on so that they can at least take it from there and move on. Some of them get into TVET institutions and so on and so forth while others get into business. Partners trained in business skills so that they can be able to move on so we already have a lot of programmes in place to ensure that there is no exclusion of anyone in our education system.
Back to drug and substance use. I support all what my colleagues have said before Madam Matheka and Marygorret. I think they have made good comments on this and of course a good point from our youth who brought up this point. I want to tell you that it's really good that it's the youth who are actually getting interested and concerned about drug and substance use in schools. I think that is really good for us because that is something that we are trying to work on very much with NACADA.
NACADA did a survey in 2018. What was revealed was very much perturbing and scary that even as young children in the level of 11, 6 years or there about have started abusing drugs and drug abuse is actually rampant in schools.
“It’s really good that it’s the youth who are actually getting interested and concerned about drug and substance use in schools….NACADA did a survey in 2018. What was revealed was very much perturbing and scary that even as young children in the level of 11, 6 years or there about, have started abusing drugs and drug abuse is actually rampant in schools.”
Previously, we had this approach of targeting the victim and of course using threats. You know trying to target people who are already victims how bad these drugs are and all that forgetting about other parameters that lead to drug abuse. We have now come…[inaudible] up with a substantial guide for our teacher and it was just launched by our minister, I think about a month ago which is having a broad-based… [inaudible] we address each of the suppliers of those drugs in the schools.
We want to address the issue of management of these issues, we want to address the issue of the source of these drugs and also issues of how we can also help some of these people who have been assisted to get back to the mainstream education. That particular guideline is in place, it has already been launched. You can look at it in the Ministry of Education website but we are working on some rigorous dissemination exercise which is supposed to take a regional approach, across the country and we hope that once we reach to our teachers very well then we shall be able to salvage quite a number of these learners who could be affected by this particular menace.
We are also working on a guidance and counselling policy. Marygorret, it's actually coming up and it's the first one of its kind and I do support what you said that we are trying to address those issues. You know there is a G&C teacher who is also a Geography or History teacher and may be having not much time to do the counselling per se to address the psycho-social issues sometimes, it is actually the CRE teacher and sometimes the youth have told us maybe..[inaudible] to make sure that no one gets left behind. I hope I have made some small points. Thank you.
Zainab: Thank you very much Dr Silvester. I am sure the youth have heard the link and the website that you can go and visit later.
Moving on to punishment and harassment, harsh and unfair punishment, bullying by our peers and harassment by our teachers in school bring some of us to drug abuse and other bad practices and even away from continuing with our education. These punishments do not help us improve in our learning or our examination performance. So I would like to ask Brian, were there any punishments that you had in your school?
Brian: Thank you Zainab for giving me this opportunity to share my experience in my school. I experienced punishment when I was in Class Six, whereby we were called after the parade and the reason for the punishment was because of under-performance and noise making in class room and it was a communal punishment. The teachers ordered us to lie on the ground and each teacher would come beating every student with canes and the teachers were about 30 and every teacher was involved so you can imagine the impact of the punishment. And also we were forced to frog jump around the school blocks which was also tiresome.
“When I was in Class Six, we were called after the parade and the reason for the punishment was because of under-performance and noise making in the classroom and it was a communal punishment. The teachers ordered us to lie on the ground and each teacher would come beating every student with canes and the teachers were about 30 and every teacher was involved so you can imagine the impact of the punishment. And also we were forced to frog jump around the school blocks which was also tiresome.”
And according to me I would have blamed the teachers because one, the teachers would have worked with the class prefect and asked for the noise makers and two, they would have checked the class list and noted the under-performers and called them and punished them. I would like to ask these questions, what should be done to teachers who use corporal punishment as a way of disciplining students? And the second one is, what are the rights behind students' punishment by teachers? Thank you.
Zainab: Milka, before we move on?
Milka: Thank you very much Zainab, I remember this part of punishment when we were in high school we happened to fail our examination that was the chemistry paper and our chemistry teacher punished us by sending us to the play field. We had to go and cut grass using a razor blade because of failing the chemistry paper.
“When we were in high school we happened to fail our examination that was the chemistry paper and our chemistry teacher punished us by sending us to the play field. We had to go and cut grass using a razor blade because of failing the chemistry paper.”
To me, that punishment had no impact because failing the exam I expect we should have done correction or do a supplementary so my question is, is it possible to administer punishment measurable to the crime committed? And the second question is, what does the policy say about failing an examination? Thank you.
Zainab: Before I give Dr Silvester a chance, I would like to invite Faith.
Faith O. Thank you Zainab, from the research we conducted, I want to confirm what my fellow young youth have said. We went to this particular school for more than six hours and we found a student kneeling. So the student knelt for all those hours and we left him kneeling actually for more than six hours but we were visitors we could not ask anything. In the same school, they punish learners using a pipe and the pipe even has a nickname; they call it ‘Mr Right’. So you are being punished according to how angry the teacher is. You can get five strokes, you can get ten strokes and be sent home because you have not paid school fees.
“We went to this particular school for more than six hours and we found a student kneeling. So the student knelt for all those hours and we left him kneeling actually for more than six hours but we were visitors we could not ask anything. In the same school, they punish learners using a pipe and the pipe even has a nickname; they call it ‘Mr Right’. So you are being punished according to how angry the teacher is. You can get five strokes, you can get ten strokes and be sent home because you have not paid school fees.”
First, you are being beaten before you are sent home because you have not paid school fees so I have three questions. The first question is more related to what Brian is asking, is it a criminal offense when a teacher harms physically for whatever reason? And the second question, if a student has some injuries from the punishment, who is supposed to pay for the treatment? And the last question as a student, I have been beaten at school and sent back home. What options do I have? Thank you.
Zainab: Thank you very much Faith, Dr Silvester you can come in .
Dr Mulambe, Director Policy: Thank you very much Zainab, I think I will make a few comments on the issues of punishment. Both physical or psychological or any form of punishment that causes pain is illegal and I think my colleague Teresia Matheka, I think will confirm that in our Basic Education Act and of course we have that I think also in the Children’s Act, but I think she can confirm now that she is a judge. We have outlawed any form of corporal punishment in our schools and that any teacher administering corporal punishment of any form, even that kneeling down, is also causing pain and psychological harm on the learner, They are all illegal. Some teachers across the country have come up with an idea. Sometimes when you get them with a cane, they tell you that it's a pointer they use to teach but like our youth are saying, when you move out of the school, that pointer is used to inflict pain on the learners.
That is of course the stand from our end and we have gone ahead, to develop a positive discipline manual as an alternative to guide our teachers towards disciplining the learners although it is still work in progress, we have already developed the draft. We are in consultation with the Teacher Service Commission. I think once the consultations are over then we shall be able to have this particular document out. I think that’s the stand, and anybody trying to inflict pain on the learners should actually be seen to be doing something wrong.
Declan (Moderator 2): Thank you very much Zainab, for a fantastic deliberation on three of the 7 - point agenda. I am very happy to take over and guide the discussion on the other four points. Starting off with sexual gender-based violence and teen pregnancies and I think this has been touched on a little bit. According to the World Health Organization, 1 in 3 women globally experience sexual violence at some point and in their lifetime and this problem is also very widespread in Kenya. It has even increased more during the Covid-19 pandemic period which we are still in and some girls are being impregnated by their boyfriends and peers out of consensual sex however the rape cases are still rampant and are also a huge cause of teen pregnancies. To give more perspective to this, I am happy to invite Faith Wangui to tell us a little bit of her experience as well as her perspectives.
Faith Wangui: Thank you Declan. I am Faith Wangui, and I remember when I was in Form 4, there was this girl who was a prefect and she was among the big four prefects in our school. And it happened that she got pregnant when we were in Form 4 second term and during that time when the deputy and the principal realized that she was pregnant, she was forced to give back her prefect badge and she was embarrassed in front of the whole school and later that day she was sent home and was told to come back when the KCSE were being done. When she came back, she did her KCSE outside the school and she would come every day. Because we were in a boarding school and at that time she had already given birth and was it necessary to send her home because she was pregnant? I was asking the policy makers, which are the strategies that are put in place for learners who get pregnant to ensure that they don’t miss out entirely on their studies? I also want to ask, the boys that get these girls pregnant, and they are also underage how are they handled? [inaudible]
Declan: Faith, you are breaking off but I think that your questions are in and I would like to take the chance to pass the questions. So there are three questions as I captured them. Just based on the story that Faith has shared, is it necessary to send the pregnant girl home? Secondly, what are the measures put in place to ensure that such girls do not find it difficult to transition back to school or even just to study without challenges? Thirdly, the boys who get these girls pregnant, are there any measures taken against them? I will pass the question first to Dr Silvester because I think that question is directed to you.
Dr Mulambe: Thank you very much, I had just dropped out a little but I think I got the last part of the question. It is true what the research brought out with regard to the school-going girls getting pregnant particularly during the Covid-19 period and that is quite an issue. Like I said earlier, for us in the Ministry of Education we have tried to make sure that these girls once they get pregnant, they are not castigated or stigmatized and they are supported so that they could be able to go through the process and still find their way back.
I think in my previous presentation, I actually said that we even follow the dropped out for several years and in fact in Malindi that is Kilifi county, we found so many girls - some of them who are dropped out for three years, four years and all we were still trying to rehabilitate them so you see that fact that one is expectant, of course it also come with several issues and other girls again may look at it as a good thing so we try to look at it in a balanced way to make sure that this girl is carefully handled and allowed to go back then get back to school.
Sometimes when you get to our schools, you get situations which are really tough. During the national examinations, they do the exams when they are pregnant and sometimes the child is even brought and left in the staffroom with a mate so that the girl can go do the exam and then get back, so we do everything possible to assist these girls to get back.
I think as I said earlier on, we have the school re-entry guideline to guide our school systems in ensuring the girls get back and we actually don’t expect our school head teachers to deny these girls to get back. Of course many times we would wish that the girl gets to another school different from the school where she was but if she insists on getting to the school where she was, then sometimes we just allow it. Our interest is to give these girls a second chance to get the education that they might have actually lost otherwise. Thank you.
Declan: Thank you Dr Silvester, I see Dr Sheila’s hand up. Go ahead?
Dr Wamahiu: Sorry, I know I am not supposed to ask questions now. However, there is a question from a school in Kieni West which caters for pregnant girls and teen mothers. It's a secondary school but they also have some kids from primary where the primary school children go to neighbouring schools. So, this girl, Rachel, is asking how can we - by ‘we’, she means the teen mothers and the pregnant girls, improve our self esteem. Thank you.
Declan: Thank you Dr Sheila, I will actually pass that to Mary Gorett. She looks like she is excited to respond to Rachel’s question and even a little bit of the first question.
MaryGorret, Director Children Services: Thank you so much Declan. To Rachel, it's about mentorship. We need to have people who hold your hands and walk with you and show you that being pregnant is not the end of life,you can still make it in life to just show you that you still have potential and that you are able to proceed with your education and with your life even if you are a mother.
As we say in Swahili, kosa moja haliachishi mke so if you fall once, it does not mean that you are so bad. So it's about mentorship and counselling and also some training on life skills on how to raise your self esteem, how to appreciate yourself and take back your life. On the issue of how to treat the girls, Dr Silvester has elaborated on the school re-entry guidelines. What I would like to respond to is the question that was passed on about the boy who is underage and he is the father. So as Justice Matheka will tell you, we consider both the girl and the boy as children in need of care and protection. So we will not take the boy to court for making this girl pregnant, but we will go there and say that these two children are in need of care and protection. We will take them through counselling and have a discussion on how this boy can also be involved in the life of the child.
Declan: Thank you very much. I am very interested to hear Justice Matheka’s view; is the boy child a criminal having impregnated the girl?
Hon Justice Matheka: Thank you so much for that question. I am glad that we are having this discussion. One of the challenges we have in the justice system is the Sexual Offenses Act. In the manner in which it was being implemented, you know, because one of the things you see, if you read that law, is that any sexual activity with a child and a child is anyone below the age of 18, is an offence.
We found what you are calling consensual sex but the same law says that a minor cannot consent to sex so the consent is not acceptable. So it became what I call a complex situation because now you have two young people who are below the age of 18 and decide to go and do something that the law says that they do not have the consent to do. Most times, the boy would be arrested and charged with the offence and sitting in the children’s court, that was one of the things that we found was terribly unfair because if you call the girl she will say that they just agreed so the issue becomes, who do you charge?
So we realized that there is something that the law did. The law did not recognize that there is an age - the adolescent age - where young people will be doing everything that they are told not to do, they do it and experimenting all those things so why should we criminalize that? So the issue became that these two people we have told them not to do something because it is not right for their age. How does the law deal with them? And we treat them as children in need of care and protection but when I sat in the children’s court, I would call both parents to my court chambers - both the parents of the boy and the girl - and we say that the children say that none forced the other, so there is a problem here and it is all of us here who are responsible. There is something that we did not do and we should have done so that these children wait until it is the appropriate time for them. That boy would not be treated as a criminal. The other thing is when they are treated as children in need of care and protection, because of their age and you see where no force has been used because there are some boys who will actually defile another girl and that is a different case. If they are treated like that, they are then taken to what my sister is talking about, the counselling and guidance and the supervision out there and they can continue with their life. There is a baby who is born and there are two children who have had a child. So in total there are three children who are in need of care and protection. Before the law, these three should be treated in need of care and protection. They have parents and guardians who are supposed to help them and also to be held accountable for that gap that was created that enabled them to do their own thing.
Then the question about self esteem. I think Rachel, one of the things again, the way the law looks at a girl who is pregnant especially who is below the age of 18, we know that our children are children until they are 25 she is she is a child in need of care and protection because she should not be pregnant in the first place. We have a responsibility as a society to help her to have that baby, to take care of that baby and if we can find that person who is accountable for that and it's an adult then to hold that person accountable for that act. I just remembered that the same society you are asking about is the same society that looks at you with those eyes but you need to remember that you, yourself as a person, have a right to your own dignity. Whatever you did is nothing wrong, something just happened and it was something that you were not supposed to do. You didn’t do it alone, there is another person so the fact that you actually even decided to carry through that pregnancy and to bring to this earth another person and that is something to be proud of. No one should make any girl feel bad because they got pregnant. Something was wrong, you know, one of the things I say when we talk about girls who are pregnant as if they have a disease is that we cannot afford to do that.The mere fact that the girl is pregnant and she has to walk around and you cannot hide the pregnancy is enough let me say ‘humiliation’ because we hold it badly against them. We should not be the ones to add on to that so I want to say, the fact that you can walk around with that pregnancy you know, and produce that baby at the end of the day is already a sign that you are a very strong person.
That should be the first step towards having your self-esteem being very high up there and no one should make you feel bad or feel small because you did that. The only thing is that you do not do it again. If it was something that you did willingly, you remember you realize that there are all things that are going to help build a child into this earth and there is a need to be careful about how we go about it but I have to say here, that we also have to hold the boys into account and one thing that I remember we used to be told when we were going to school or college is that do not go there and get pregnant. I think it's time we told the boys, do not go out there and get the girls pregnant, so that all of them are responsible.
I need to touch on the question that was asked before about the violence against the child in school, the question about the injuries after the punishment and who should pay for that. First of all, it is an offence under the Basic Education Act for a teacher to hit a child. It is also a criminal offence under the Penal Code, so TSC should be able to take up that for a teacher who hurts children and it's actually an offence and of course, they will be tagged by the police if that matter goes to the police.
Also under the Penal Code, it will be an assault or grievous harm depending on the degree of the offence and this teacher - if that student is below the age of 18 - can also be charged under the Children’s Act so it is a serious offence to harm a child under various laws because that protection is provided for. If they are found guilty, there is a penalty they ought to pay for the treatment if they are found guilty of the offence or they refund what it is that you spent but a child who has been beaten by the teacher has no business hitting the child. They need to call the parents for some indiscipline issue but any harm, physical or psychological imposed on a child, is an offence both under the Education Act and under the Children’s Act and under the Penal Code. Thank you very much.
Declan: Thank you Justice Matheka, that is really profound. I know Mary is part of the Jaslika youth and they did research on this matter. I would like to give her a chance to just give us some insights on what they found out. I am pretty sure some of our questions have actually been handled.
Mary: Thank you Declan. So during the research we had some of the discussions and we asked the girls, who are these people who are impregnating the girls and some of the responses that we got were that some were even raped by their fathers and their relatives, some by their age mates, others with sponsors with money who roam around their villages and promise to give them money especially those who come from poor backgrounds.
When Faith was a giving a story, about that girl who got pregnant and she was rejected from being a prefect, it reminded me of a case of this girl who got pregnant and before she did, she was a good athlete like she used to play football and such but then when she got pregnant, she actually told me that the last game she participated she had to hide her pregnancy so that she can be allowed to participate which she did. After that she went home and got her baby and then came back and I like that the school allowed her to get back but when she came back, they told her that she cannot participate in games anymore.
“A case of this girl who got pregnant and before she did, she was a good athlete like she used to play football and such but then when she got pregnant, she actually told me that the last game she participated she had to hide her pregnancy so that she can be allowed to participate which she did. After that she went home and got her baby and then came back and I like that the school allowed her to get back but when she came back, they told her that she cannot participate in games anymore.”
I don’t know about the anatomy of girls so I find it ironic that the girl was told not to participate in games while women are allowed to come to work even after delivering babies. My question is, for the girls who get pregnant at home and think that if I go back to school will I be allowed not just to study but also to participate in the co-curricular activities? How can we help them?
Declan: Thank you Mary. I think the first issue you raised, I think the law is clear and Justice Matheka has really clarified if anyone you know, especially an adult, is sexually involved with a minor that is an offence and it should be dealt with. On the issue of participation I will give Marygorret one minute to just inform us a little how this is handled and then we can move to the next issue.
Ms Marygorret: Thank you Magero. Just before I move to the participation, what Mary has said about incest, that is the girls getting pregnant by their fathers and other relatives is quite true because we did a survey in 2018 -2019 financial year, on violence against children and the findings were that most of the sexual violence is happening in our home. So the children are being defiled by their family members. That is true.
On the issue of participation, I am not in the medical field but I have seen our athletes get babies and get back to running so I don’t think the girls should be stopped from participating in the co-curricular activities when they get back to school after giving birth. I don’t think there is any evidence that supports that they cannot be allowed to participate as they should be participating. We go back to the issues of discrimination there should be no discrimination against the girl that she cannot participate in sports and co-curricular activities as long as she does not have health issues. Thank you.
Declan: Thank you so much. I am sure some of the experts probably have other responses but I am very sure you will have a chance to talk about them. The next issue is mental health and I think this issue has been in the fall and in the public space a lot likely. According to the Ministry of Health, the Government of Kenya, it is estimated that 1 in every 10 people suffer from a common mental disorder. The number increases to 1 in every 4 people among patients attending routine outpatient services, depression and anxiety disorders are the leading mental illness diagnosis followed by substance use disorders. Depression and anxiety are leading disorders followed by substance use disorders and I would like to indulge two young people here - one is Milka, the other one is Brian. First, Milka can you give us a little bit of your story and content and even raise some questions about this.
Milka: On this issue I remember when I was in Form One, I lost my dad and then when I went back to school, my performance started deteriorating now and then and now my class teacher was concerned so she offered a bit of advice. My question is, is it possible to have counselors in schools who are trained for that purpose because in my case, that teacher was not a guidance and counselling teacher?
“When I was in Form One, I lost my dad and then when I went back to school, my performance started deteriorating now and then and now my class teacher was concerned so she offered a bit of advice. My question is, is it possible to have counselors in schools who are trained for that purpose because in my case, that teacher was not a guidance and counselling teacher?”
And the second question is, is it possible to have professionals who are security enough where once you embark on them you are confident that when you tell him/her your problems that they are going to help you? Thank you.
Declan: Milka has told us her story: She lost her dad (and sorry for that). You know coping in school was a bit difficult and the question is, are there counselors in school who are trained for that purpose? Many children or learners also feel that they cannot confide in teachers because they are not approachable for one reason or the other - you know confidence issues - is it possible that professional counselors who are available so that these young learners can confide in them?
Before I pass these questions, I think I will invite Brian to also give us his story, his experiences and his question and then we can bundle them together and address all the questions.
Brian: Thank you, Declan, for this opportunity. My story is similar to that of Milka and when I was in Class Three, my grandfather died and he was buried in the course of the week. The exams were around the corner and I had to sit for them because obviously I had no other choice and when the results were out, I had failed terribly because I was a top performer and I had become number 10 and my class teacher could not entertain any excuses from me. So she punished me.
“When I was in Class Three, my grandfather died and he was buried in the course of the week. The exams were around the corner and I had to sit for them because obviously I had no other choice and when the results were out, I had failed terribly because I was a top performer and I had become number 10 and my class teacher could not entertain any excuses from me. So she punished me.”
What should be done to teachers who harass and punish students with mental illness? Thank you.
Declan: Thank you very much Brian. So that's another unfortunate story where Brian lost his grandfather and he had to do the exams under a lot of duress and could not perform well. He was punished for failing. I will leave these questions open, I will not pinpoint any expert so whoever wants to go first.
Dr Mulambe: Thank you Bwana Magero, maybe I could start this off. I just wanted to say that in the area of mental sickness, you know the whole idea of mental sickness was not something - was not very much known by many practitioners within I would say our sector. Many times people would look at it as indiscipline and not necessarily going into the root cause of this and it is actually something that I think every sector is now trying to see how they can be able to take care of it within their systems so that we don’t just look at every indiscipline or very happening caused by a child to be just indiscipline as such.
I think we are really trying to change our approaches so that we are also trying to go into the root causes of some of these issues that come up particularly indiscipline and we just say sorry for what had happened to our colleague before, but I want to encourage Dr Sheila that maybe for future dialogue, we could also have a TSC person who directly hears some of these so that they can be able to take it to their boardrooms and see how they can be able to deal with some of these teachers who I would call at this stage, errant teachers.
Otherwise from our end, we have tried to take care of mental health issues particularly as we craft the G&C policy. We are trying to look at issues with mental health and of course many of our activities are played. We are trying to really look into the health of the learner. I was just in an activity in Kisumu today, where we were launching the deworming programme. We as educationists realized that as much as we put in a lot of effort on provision of quality education there are several detractors and some of them are health issues, some of them could be body health issues and some could be mental health issues and we are trying to really work on it to see that some of these issues are taken care of so that the right medication or the right approach is taken to sort out some of these issues.
Otherwise I do agree with our youth that there have been excesses in the past and really trying to get tough or very rough on sick cases but I started by saying some of which may not be known by these actors; they merely looked at it as indiscipline. But I think now we are getting more and more conscious of this happening and we are looking for many ways of addressing them.
The other day we also produced the Physical Education and Sports Policy which did also address several issues on health and some of it also on mental health and I think as we move forward, we should be able to make most of our actors conscious and well sensitized on the existence of mental illnesses among the learners. Thank you.
Declan: Thank you Dr Silvester. Before I give the other experts, Faith Oliech, you have a question?
Faith O: Yes. Okay, so my question is in relation to the research we did. So I talked to one of the watchmen from one of the schools and he told me that some learners stay away from their parents so for like two week, the parents are not aware of the whereabouts of their children. So is their safety guaranteed in the environment they find themselves in? Because again I cannot blame the parents because most of them stay in single rooms and these are teenagers, they cannot kind of sleep together in the same room with their parents. My question is, is there a way that we can help these learners because staying away from an unfavourable environment and going to school your parents are not aware where you are and all that? My question again goes to Mr Fred because I found out that many learners with disabilities are not going to school. They are just left at home because their parents or their guardians must go out and look for food to put on the table and I found that they are at a higher risk of being raped - mainly ladies, you know they have a disability and they are being left in the house unlocked or just in the veranda so this can also lead to mental issue and how can we make sure that these learners go to school because some of them are at ten years and they are just at home.
Thank you.
“Many learners with disabilities are not going to school. They are just left at home because their parents or their guardians must go out and look for food to put on the table and I found that they are at a higher risk of being raped - mainly ladies, you know they have a disability and they are being left in the house unlocked or just in the veranda so this can also lead to mental issue and how can we make sure that these learners go to school because some of them are at ten years and they are just at home.”
Declan: Thank you very much Faith. So that question is around the learners living with disability and mental health because you know that one can actually suffer those two. I will pass it on to either Justice Matheka or Marygorret to give their responses.
Marygorret: Let me go first on the issue of mental health. As adults we have this assumption that when we lose a close relative, that the children do not have feelings and they are not grieving. We do not normally support them in the grieving process so we need to support children even if we are not professionals and counselors.
“As adults we have this assumption that when we lose a close relative, that the children do not have feelings and they are not grieving. We do not normally support them in the grieving process so we need to support children even if we are not professionals and counselors.”
Just you, as a parent, you can give a child an opportunity - they just express themselves and they just talk to you how they are feeling about that death and how it has affected them, what they feel and what they can do to cope and not avoid the pain, they need to go through the grieving process until they are able to now resilience like now during Covid-19, the children who are in school especially in boarding schools are having a lot of anxiety because they don’t know whether their parents have gotten sick or whether some relative has died and has been buried within the 72 hours so there is a lot of anxiety in schools. So even when the children come back, you need to sit with them and just talk to them. You don’t have to be a professional; just listen to them and even to what they are not saying just listen and try to support them. Talk to them about death and life issues because now with Covid-19, you are not sure. So that is what I would like to say about that. Thank you.
Declan: Thank you
Hon Justice Matheka: Thank you, Mr Magero. Maybe I can add one or two things that I heard about what Mr Mulambe said about mental illness and people not being aware of it. But once again I think there is a gap when it comes to children and young people that has not been addressed for a long time. Children get mental illnesses. It does not mean that if you are not talking about it, it was not there. It has always been there, but talking about it and meeting it up front - because like I said earlier about children who end up in court in conflict with the law, you find some actually have those issues particularly the young people. They commit crime because of the things that they are going through.
“I think there is a gap when it comes to children and young people that has not been addressed for a long time. Children get mental illnesses. It does not mean that if you are not talking about it, it was not there. It has always been there, but talking about it and meeting it up front - because like I said earlier about children who end up in court in conflict with the law, you find some actually have those issues particularly the young people. They commit crime because of the things that they are going through”
The one thing you will realize is that even the justice system, is not responsible because for example if an adult commits murder before we even proceed with their case, we have to have a mental assessment report to confirm that they are capable of following the proceedings but for children who commit crime, and they can shock us with what they have done and it is not mandatory that we actually do that assessment to make sure that child was actually okay so there are those gaps an I am happy they are being discussed here and I am hoping that they will actually form a basis of the recommendations that are going to be made and talk to the people who make those laws because some of us are implementers of what is important.
Brian also asked what should be done with a teacher and you know these are attitudes that we have even for the pregnant girl who was embarrassed in school; you can imagine what happened then - her mental status after that - you know, or the one who comes to school has a child and was running perfectly and she is told that you cannot do that again. It's not just about her being denied something but it had a mental implication to that. So with all these things, what are they calling for, which is for us to interrogate how our teachers are trained. They need to have an awareness, consciousness that for every child that walks into class, one or two of them will be having issues and they should be responsive to their needs.
Of course, the law as usual has something in place for example if a child is found to have a mental issue they are supposed to be taken to an institution for treatment but those institutions again are not there. I think he will tell you again that we do not have specific institutions that are there for children who have mental issues so those are some of the things that we can look at. Basically, I think that is what I wanted to add, thank you.
Declan: I see Mr Fred has raised his hand up, I was actually going to ask you to respond to the question.
Mr Fred Haga: Thank you, I just wish to respond to Faith’s question and I begin by because I do know that there’s sometimes lack of awareness in distinguishing issues of intellectual disability and mental health and indeed even people with intellectual disabilities sometimes have incidences of mental health. So Faith talks about those especially with intellectual disability who are not going to school and that is a reality sad as it may be. That children with different disabilities are over-represented in the population that are out of school and that is because of several factors. The main one being lack of awareness however, I wish to emphasize that all children regardless of their abilities or limitations, are entitled to quality education and that is why the Ministry of Education has specific tailor made programs for education for all children.
Sometimes a child or a learner with intellectual disability may not be able to learn the things that a child without disability is able to learn but there is still something that he/she can learn. It could be issues of independent living or activities of daily living and that is provided for in our curriculum. It is wrong, it is against the law to prevent a child from going to school again on account of his/her disability.
I want to say that the Ministry of Education, like I already said at some point, has different types of schools that are intended to meet the learning needs of different learners. The ideal situation is that a child leaves home in the morning, goes to the school in the neighborhood and then comes back home, either during lunch break or in the evening but we also do acknowledge that families are encountering very diverse circumstances and sometimes, a boarding school might be the most appropriate approach for some of these learners because some of them are very highly dependent and will require extra support either at home or in school and so a situation where a family probably because of its circumstances, has to leave a child behind and that a child is exposed to certain dangers or harms then we will recommend that this child be taken to a boarding school and there are a lot of special boarding schools in this country that can cater for the learning needs of of such children however, what the ministry is currently doing to ensure that that population of learners which I already said is over-represented in the out of school population goes to basically awareness and sensitization campaigns.
I earlier mentioned the education assessment and resource center of the year and that is the structure of the ministry that we are really using to sensitize the community and let them know that every child has a right to go to school regardless of his/her disability. The psycho-social support is very critical just to add on to what Dr Mulambe said, and schools have departments that are supposed to provide that psycho-social support in the guidance and counselling departments which are usually staffed with teachers. Again teachers in their training have a component of guidance and counselling but you will also find that many teachers have gone ahead and acquired higher qualifications so that they are able to provide psycho-social support to the learners more appropriately and this also applies to those children with special needs or disabilities.
To finish off, I think that it is a really sad situation that in this country in the 21st century we still have children with disabilities who are hidden at homes and are not going to school please take note that that is not acceptable and if reported, if the government agencies get to know that, the families are made to answer for that because all children should be able to go to school. Thank you.
Declan: Thank you Mr Fred that is quite a complicated issue, you know, to be a learner living with disability and potentially have mental disability issues and also intellectual challenges. So thank you for your insights on that. Then the next two issues that are sports and recreation are the next issues as well as life skills and values is the seventh agenda item. I would like to combine them in the interest of time partly because life skills for instance and values have been a cross-cutting issue so I will combine the discussion together with sports and recreation. Just to give a little bit of backdrop, access to sports and recreational activities is critical for the health, physical and emotional development and well-being of learners and youth in Kenya for instance. And this is why physical education and physical activities are part of the school curriculum in Kenya. Sports and recreational activities have a positive impact even on behavior and motivation of youth and can even lead to a professional career. I think there was that case where the girl got pregnant and got back but could not participate in sports activities. We are going to raise the questions of access here as guaranteed access to sports and recreation is critical for the well-being of all the youth and learners.
On life skills and values, even the last policy expert’s ideas touched on teaching psycho-social competencies and interpersonal skills that help learners make informed decisions, solve problems, think critically and creatively, communicate effectively, build healthy relationships, emphasize with others and cope with and manage their lives in a healthy and responsible manner. That is crucial. Even for the cases of the two young persons who told us about the loss of their guardians, life skills and values would have been crucial here.
Despite the CBC’s effort to teach life skills and values in schools, there are still gaps and I think we all agree on that. Schools should not only be about academic performance, because not all children are talented academically, however all can leave school with skills and values that will help them in life. I will give a chance to our youth to give us their stories as far as sports and recreation activity is concerned and as well as life skills is concerned then we can respond to the questions together. So, starting with sports and recreation, I would like to give Faith Oliech a minute to tell us her story.
Faith O: Thank you Declan, so I am glad to report that my primary school was close to one of the schools for the deaf. And I can tell you that the learners who were there used to beat us when it comes to sports and all that. They were known and that was their area and they never had a field. Actually they were always coming to our school to access the field.
Being that I am also a teacher, those schools never had equipment or materials that can help the learners to grow their talent and all that. My question is, do I have a right to play? Because you find that in these schools, mostly teachers are still like it’s all about the books and even our parents, they are always after the grades. So do I have a right to play as a child? And what happens when this right is snatched away from me? Thank you.
Declan: Thank you very much. I will pass it on to Milka.
Milka : Thank you Declan. In this area of sports and recreation, in most schools you find that maybe those big resources are included in the day-day activities and you find that there are teachers’ the attendance sheet and maybe PE is included and it was attended by another teacher, maybe let's say a mathematics teacher. And so the readers relate that the PE is for either the Math lesson and they write the teacher’s name and by the end of the week you have to take those forms to the administration and maybe the administration are aware that the PE lesson was not attended and they do not take action. My question is, what is the student supposed to do in such a situation where it happens without raising an alarm? The second question is, if possible.. [inaudible]
Declan: Thank you Milka for your story, and there is one of the youth here who is actually a sports coach and his name is Daniel, I think it will be great to hear from you.
Daniel: Thank you Declan. Like the school I went to we used to walk 1.5 kilometers back and forth just to go and play and this really made it difficult with the players who were supposed to lead us because most of them did not want to walk that distance so they opted to stay back in school. Whenever we went for a match, we used to lose like every game and this really affected me because I did not like losing. So I even stopped going to the field. Whenever I went back home, for a holiday to join my academy team back at home, my coach could see that I was behind and I had to start from zero. Also growing up in a family where no one ever told me the importance of going to school and no one really pushed me to education. So my life was all about sports because no one really cared about my school results, but my community and my friends really praised me and my rugby academy for winning trophies which made me love sports more than education. This made me even to change the school and join a new school with facilities and after joining this new school, I was so happy because I started becoming a better person in terms of sports and many schools in Nairobi wanted to give me scholarships to join their schools and these are opportunities that I started getting after leaving the previous school. After high school, one of the best rugby teams came for me and I had to join them and after a year, I started to realize that these people have jobs and they were not depending on rugby so much. One day I went to a senior player and asked him to find me a job and he asked me, “Do you have papers Okito?” and I was like, “What are papers?” and one of my friends told me that it is something that you study in college or university and through rugby, I started to know the importance of school whereby no one ever told me when I was young and rugby really changed my life and led me to go to college.
On the other side, many teachers do not support sports because you will find teachers are extending their lessons and yet it is time for the learners to have sports. And I as a coach, a session that I am supposed to start at 3pm, I end up starting it at 3:40 p.m. and whenever I ask the learners why they are late, they keep telling me that their teachers were in the classroom and when it is time for them to go home, they ask if they can play more.
My question is, are there rules and regulations set that are setting a new school concerning playgrounds ? And what happens to the teachers who are extending their classes when it is time for sports? Thank you.
Declan: Thank you Daniel, quite an interesting story about how sports is impactful. And just to go into the life skills space, I would like to ask Mary, one of our young people to give us her experience that is more life skills-based.
Mary: Thank you Declan. On what almost every youth has talked about it is true that schools and homes are often focused on your grade. When you finish they just ask, “What grade did you get” I will give an example of a boy here at home where this boy before joining school, he got into drugs and then his father forced him to go to school and since he was forced, he would go to school whenever he wanted and he would even run away and they just give him a punishment then he does not do it. He was just rude to the teachers but the students loved him. So when the exams came and when the elections came and they had to elect a prefect, the students voted for him so everyone thought that the teachers would refuse to make him prefect because he was not a good student but the teachers decided that instead of rejecting him, they should use this as an opportunity to see and decided that they will use that in a positive way and they said if he is responsible for other students, he will turn up to be responsible as well.
They used to coach him and the principal would call him and tell him to lead by example. So by the time he finished school, yes he did not perform well and get a good grade because he had a D+ but then how he came out as a person was quite different, he was respectful and he was a good person. Before I go to the question, most people when they are asked they say that, “He went to school but he did not pass well” but they do not consider how he came out. My question is, could we have a scenario where we can grade how a school has helped me as a person as for the positive values that I have gotten not just by the grade that I got? I also have a concern because this is just one case that turned out well but in the case when I look at our area, not everyone who attended school came out as good people. Some were even in the same classes - they came and they passed more than him but then you find they are the ones out here making and selling chang’aa and now because they have money, they are the ones who are sponsoring these girls, impregnating them. So my question is, how come the curriculum is helping this student pass the exams but not helping the student who was well-behaved in the same school? Thank you.
Declan: Thank you Mary, very interesting questions. I will give the last chance to David to give us his story on life skills and then I will pass it on to the policy experts to respond to the questions.
David: Thank you very much. My concern about life skills was a story behind the life skills lessons and how they are practically applicable in our institutions. Back when I was in primary school, there was this lesson that was indicated in the timetable - that this particular time, there should be this life skill lesson. And through my primary school- I was in a rural school so I didn’t know anything about life skills. What I knew was that lessons like CRE, science and all that. So when it came to all this life skill lesson, I used to see the CRE teacher come in and teach the CRE lessons and at the end of it all, even after I concluded my primary school I never knew what life skill entailed, which I later came to know that it was all about preparing you in your next life or the next level of education that you are going to take maybe at that point if they advised us. Later in high school, I was invited to an extra county where we used to meet with different kinds of people and it was hard for me to socialize with them and how I would associate with those guys from these guys now, a diverse community and from diverse regions and cultures and countries. And it was hard for me.
If they would have taught us about life skills, and how to live with these people, and how to socialize with them and even with teachers, now that you are in a new environment. It became hard for me and my fellow youth who were also not taught these life skills. Later in high school the same thing repeated itself. But there was this lesson indicator - that at this particular time there should be this life skill lesson and this happened once per week, which through my whole high school life, I never learned that lesson. Instead of us having that lesson, the Kiswahili and Chemistry teacher used to alternate each and every week to attend that lesson and they would continue with their lesson instead of teaching the life skill lesson at that time.
My question is, are there policies that help the government to ensure where these life skill lessons are taught because guidance is also very crucial in our lives as Mary told us; it's not about academics, we also need to understand the life skill part of our life and how we are going to live. Life is not all academics because we need to survive outside with people and we need those skills to do that as young people out there and also interacting with different people from different backgrounds. I think that life skill is very important and from our policy experts, help us understand if there are such policies that are there and help assess whether the life skill lessons are taught and how they are applicable? Thank you.
Declan: Thank you David, that is a very interesting experience there and I want to direct the questions to the policy experts: One is under sports. Faith is asking if the learners have a right to play. We also have the question on student-teacher relationship. As far as physical education is concerned, the period is actually suppressed by teachers and how do we go about it? And then the question on playing grounds, on access to facilities. Then under life skills, can life skills and values also be considered as metrics to a wide grade other than just academic performance? And then the other one is how to improve the curriculum to capture the values as well, and lastly tracking of life skill lessons. The floor is yours, our policy experts, I will also leave this open.
Dr. Mulambe: Thank you. Maybe I could start it off and I want to agree with what the young people have brought forward and I think that the research that you have done in our educational institutions, learners and teachers is true. What has come out reflects what is there in some schools really not necessarily in all. It is true that the area of physical education and sports may not be taken very seriously in some schools but in some schools it is particularly in the international schools you find that physical education and sports is taken very seriously.
What causes this is what we would refer to as the meanscore syndrome. You know people are concerned with what would bring the mean score up and you see that now PE and sports is not examinable, then they would rather have mathematics or physics or chemistry taught during the PE lessons and I think that is true and that is the basis of a policy that we have developed to revamp the whole area of PE and sports. We have guided our stakeholders very well. The other day we were disseminating the document. It was already launched with our field coordination officers who are the representatives of the county directors of education, the regional directors of education and so on and so forth. I think that ended last week in Embu and we also want to proceed with our regional meeting to ensure that we revamp the whole area of PE and sports. I want to say that it is true just like Faith was saying that every child has a right to PE and sports and even the music and drama and so on. They have a right and you see the area of PE and sports is an integral part of the curriculum and it is normally timetabled just like they said but sometimes you see there are errant teachers who may want to use those lessons for other things but I think that is key.
Another thing that this confirms to the fact that we insist on this is that when schools are being registered, one of the requirements for registration of a school is a playing ground. In fact that is quite key; that there must be a playing ground for the children normally, we allow for a lease and sometimes a proprietor who wants to start a school, may not have a space for a field within the school particularly for private schools and we allow them to lease a neighboring field - it could be a public field, a field of another school - and show us an arrangement of how they want to make use of the same field at different times.
I think that is there and the young people need to know that it is their right to participate in PE and sports. I want to say that PE and sports resonates very well with the CBC where you find that the area of sports forms also a pathway so that, that gentleman who was talking about how he had it nice pursuing the area of rugby which has made him really comfortable and of course just to mention that but there are many others who have benefited from sports and even with our Kipchoge, even us with our PHDs so to speak, we may not reach him. I think he is far ahead of us.
What we are bringing out here and even in the CBC is that even if you are poor in academics, then you are good in something else. Every child is a winner and this resonates very well with what we are saying here with PE and sports so that you could be not very good in academics but if you are good in sports, then we would provide an opportunity for you under CBC to nurture that particular talent so this is well addressed in our new curriculum but of course you know, we are in the process of changing because we still have the 8-4-4 group with us and you find that some of these things that the youth have said, exist.
The area of life skills, it is true previously, we used to have a lesson on life skills trying to address life issues so that the learners would be able to be well sensitized on life issues and how to take care of them. But I think going forward we had now to change the tact and see how to infuse this [inaudible]. As I was saying, when you look at the CBC, we are talking about producing an ethical citizen so the area of value-based education is really taken care of under the CBC. And we believe that once we have this curriculum through, then we will be able to have the values and you see even when you look at our society surely the values are lacking. I think the moment we went elliptic, we forgot the values and we are really behind in terms of values.
I remember that I was in Tanzania last week and I could really see high levels of values among those citizens. You see a young person even in the bank when there are few seats and a young man is sitting and sees an old person coming, then that person automatically stands up and ushers in the older person. The other day I was having a meal with my son and somebody brought some material to wash hands and started with the boy instead of starting with the father, you see. And when we asked the attendant, he said, “You know, us with our generation we do not know these things and we do not know about this older-younger people business” so you can see that our society really needs this area of value-based education and I want to confirm to you that it is well addressed in our Competency-Based Curriculum. Thank you.
Declan: Marygorret, do you want to go next?
Marygorret Mogaka: Thank you Magero and the young people. I just want to say what you have said is true especially on PE and sports and recreation activities and Dr Silvester has handled it very well. When we interact with the Kenya Children Assembly - those are the children in school - and they have told us the same things that PE is in the timetable but it is used for teaching the examinable subjects and I believe that it is not only the school that has an issue, it comes from us, the parents and the adults because our expectation is that our children can pass exams, not to excel in sports and co-curricular activities. So we also need to change our attitude as parents.
The right to play is enshrined in our laws. It is in the Children’s Act so it is a recognized right. Then I quickly go to the life skills which are very important and as the young people said about training in life skills, most of the issues that are facing the youth now can be dealt with in the life skills training. We need our young people to be trained on being assertive and on communication skills, interpersonal relation, self awareness, problem solving - all those life skills. They will need them - even skills on how to even sit for interviews or on how to be employable - so all those life skills. But I believe besides the school, the families should also be teaching both life skills and values and we should not just leave everything to the school; families should also be responsible for bringing up their children.
The objectives of education are broader than educational attainment in terms of performance. When you look at the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, they have given very broad objectives of an education system for the African child and the same is also on the Basic Education Act. So education is supposed to shape the student holistically so that this is socially, morally, spiritually. And our curriculum, as Dr Silvester has said, is very broad and the issue is how it is executed so we should go back to the curriculum. And as he has said, CBC has come to deal with the problem so we are hoping that with CBC, we will have well-rounded children, not just those who are able to only perform. But they have no life skills like what our young person said, that when he moved to another level, he was not able to cope and even form relationships because he had not been taken through that. Those are my comments on the three, thank you.
Declan: Thank you Madam Marygorret, Justice Matheka, do you want to chime in as well?
Justice Matheka: Thank you very much. I think I don’t have much to add. I think the two have said most of it; the only thing is just to emphasize that children have a right to play, to recreation. It is there in our law and it is not something that we need to legislate because it should be natural, but it is legislated. So it means that if it is not given there is a consequence.
When it comes to values, in our own Constitution Article 11, I think we talk about these values and again what values that we should have, we should inculcate in ourselves, in our systems, in the way we do business as people, government, institutions. If you look at the Basic Education Act, one of the guiding principles is impacting relevant knowledge, skills, attitudes and values to learners to foster the spirit and sense of patriotism, nationhood, unity and purpose, togetherness and respect so that time put in the timetable for that is very important. Probably our education system has forgotten the meaning of education - it is not just about passing exams; there is learning, getting of knowledge, acquisition of skills and also to enable the learners to open up their minds to intellectual activity - to think, discuss and if you look at the guidelines, those who provide for that. So there is a disconnect between what is supposed to be done in the classroom and what ends up being done and the people who lose out are the students. In the long term, our whole society, because we put down things to be done and they are not done. I would say that this is an area that perhaps requires to be looked into and like Dr Silvester said, perhaps TSC needs to hear what the young people are saying, on what they are missing out because the curriculum or what is supposed to be done in the classroom, in the school is not being done. Thank you.
Additional Q&A
[The following transcript has been slightly modified for readability. The Q&A session lasted approximately 35 minutes.This segment addresses questions from the attendees joining in via YouTube and other social media platforms. Some of the responses were live, while others were written in post-Roundtable.]
Declan: Thank you very much. So the next session is a brief set of questions from the participants on other platforms who are following. Fred, I would like you to participate in that session so you will have the first chance, so you can combine it with your response here and to help us handle that very brief session, I will pass the baton to Dr Sheila to raise a few questions from the public.
Dr. Wamahiu: Thank you very much Declan. I will summarize some of the issues because of the time but I know that we cannot exhaust the answers today. What we will do after this session is we will put the questions together and circulate to our panelists where you can then write to us and then we shall put it up on our website and other social media platforms and even your platforms so that these answers can be responded to. But since you have given me the chance, Mr Haga can respond to the first question.
YP Agenda #1: Inclusive teaching methodologies & curriculum
Q1. Are there any provisions within schools especially in the rural areas for persons on the autism spectrum that is an issue that we did not discuss today. My question is in regards to persons who are on the autism spectrum. Are there provisions within schools especially in the rural areas of Kenya for persons on the spectrum? - Sonia Basant, Nairobi
A: Frederick Haga: The question of whether our schools can accommodate learners with autism or autistic spectrum disorders, yes, we do have schools - not as many as there should be - Indeed there are very few schools catering specifically for children with autistic spectrum disorders in the rural areas. [This is] because autism is one of those disabilities that I must say was not initially considered as a disability in this country and many of the learners who had autism were generally lumped together with those who had intellectual and probably other developmental disabilities. But today we recognize that that is a specific disability and we are training teachers at the Kenya Institute of Special Education to be able to cater for the learning needs of children who have autism. There are trained teachers in some of the schools catering for learners with intellectual and developmental disabilities who can support them.
Q2. I was looking through the KIDC curriculum designs for CBC just now to find where learners are taught about (difference and) disability. Where are the recommended content, recommended behavioural exercises and the practices for the classroom and the playground? Not in G1 - so in what class does this start, I wonder? I am familiar with G2 and 3 and cannot remember a substrand on this.- Dr. Anna Obura, Senior Educationist and International Consultant
A: Dr Silvester Mulambe - The approved regular curriculum is adapted to suit the needs of learners with special needs. These designs are available on the KICD Website (www.kicd.ac.ke).
A: Frederick Haga -The CBC is big on the issue of diversity and appreciation of difference. The concept of diversity, difference, which also has implications on disability are introduced to learners in the Early Years Education- Grades 1 to 3 in such learning areas as Environmental studies. I may not at the top of my head give you the specific strands or classes where certain learning areas focus on that but that is something that is really emphasized by the CBC and given a little time I could, tease out the specific areas that respond to that.
Q3. There is a grave omission in CBC that the playground is not incorporated into CBC learning. Arguably, the hidden curriculum is taught more effectively in the playground than in the classroom but observation of schools tells us that teachers are not observing the playground. In terms of society learning about disability and special needs, the playground is of course paramount.But every minute of the school day is an opportunity for learning about peers (and others) with special needs. - Dr. Anna Obura, Senior Educationist and International Consultant
A: Frederick Haga: The playground is critical to all schools. Schools who do not own their own must work out a plan on how they can share the facilities owned by other schools.
A: Dr. Silvester Mulambe - Kindly refer to the designs for instance Pre-Primary One – Psychomotor and creative activities. Basic motor skills – Please refer to the specific learning outcomes page 112. Further, in Grade 5, under Physical Health Education (PHE). Page 1 Games and sports, athletics and track events. CBC endeavours to nurture every learner’s potential. This is amplified by the fact that there is an Arts and Sports pathway at Senior School.
Q4: Why is it that the more marginalized a school is, the lesser the resources, the lesser the teachers? What is the policy saying about distribution of resources in our Kenyan schools? -Faith Oliech, Jaslika Youth Member
A: Fredrick Haga - I believe ‘marginalization’ is also about resources. All schools need to have a minimum threshold to be registered by the Government as an institution of learning.
A: Dr Silvester Mulambe - The Government of Kenya through the Ministry of Education ensures provision of education resources to support access to quality, relevant and inclusive education for all learners in the country irrespective of their social, economic or political affiliation. This is in line with the provisions of the Kenyan constitution 2010, Basic Education Act,2013 Distribution of resources is equal across all schools in the country. Besides, the Government has established the National Council for Nomadic Education NACONEK to further support education in the marginalized areas.
Q.5 Recommendations
Involve parents in special education of their children & sensitise programme to comprehend
Create special units in schools
Enrol more manpower with knowledge & skills of SNE
Motivate teachers in those Units (When the children of persons with special needs graduate they end with a lot of challenges in the society}
Fund special needs organisations to enable mobilisation at grassroot level. - made by Elder Isaac Githaiga Wambugu “representing human rights and pupils welfare in education”, Tetu sub-county, Nyeri
A: Frederick Haga: The recommendations made by Elder Isaac Githaiga are very appropriate.
Parents should always be involved in the education of their children, with or without special needs; CBC has ‘Parental engagement’ as one of its principles.
There are more than 3,000 special units in various schools across the country. More are being created in line with the Ministry’s vision of inclusion of learners with special needs in the general education model.
Indeed, there is a need for more specialized personnel to be hired in supporting learners with special needs and disabilities in education. These include teachers, sign language interpreters, braille transcribers and other learning support assistants.
The teachers in special schools, integrated programmes and special units are remunerated at a higher rate compared to other teachers. This is meant to motivate them.
It may not be for the Ministry of Education to fund organizations in order to mobilize the community, but the National Council for Persons with Disabilities also supports organizations of persons with disabilities.
Comment #1: The review of the basic education act should factor in the inequalities in the marginalized regions and communities. Financing of the education sector is critical; avoid uniform funding. - Dr Mark Obonyo, Kenyatta University
A: Dr. Silvester Mulambe - Basic Education Act, 2013 takes into cognizance of equality and equity in provision of education for all learners in Kenya. The Act is under review.
Comment #2: As much as the ministry claims to be catering for special needs children, a lot needs to be done . I think special needs and counseling should be part of the subjects for all teachers so that no learner is left behind. - Concilliah Indoshi, Mombasa-based Jaslika Member
YP Agenda #2: Drugs and alcohol abuse
Q1: Our question is, what is the take of the panelists on expelling drug users from school and comment on domestic violence and CBC. - Mark, Angel & Joseph from Tetu
A: Marygorret Mogaka
On expelling drug users from school
Education is a right under the Constitution, the Children Act and Basic Education Act
Other methods of dealing with the issue, instead of expulsion, including guidance and counselling to be employed.
Involvement of parents and guardians
Empowerment of students to prevent drug abuse
On domestic Violence
There is law on domestic violence, the Protection against Domestic Violence Act 2 of 2015
The Government and Non-Governmental Organizations have developed programmes to deal with domestic violence, including Gender Desks at Police Stations, Rescue Centres, Helplines such as Child Helpline 116, Gender Violence Helpline 1195
A: Justice Matheka
On drug abuse
A child who is exposed to drugs is a child in need of care and protection under the children Act. It is also an offence to be in possession of drugs . The expected procedure is for that child to be assisted by the institution (school, parents, court, DCS, Probation) to find out the roots of the drug use and assist with rehabilitation. School administrators take the shortcut. This child upon being charged in court or presented as a child in need of care and protection the multi-agency approach is supposed to be used to assist the child. (See guiding principles in the Basic Education ACT)
On domestic violence and CBC.
Regarding domestic violence: We have the Protection Against Domestic Violence Act (google it). It defines forms of domestic violence. A victim can seek protection from court.
A: Dr. Silvester Mulambe - The Ministry has put in place guidelines on prevention of drug and substance abuse. The Ministry has put in place various interventions that address Gender Based Violence in schools. On the other hand the Basic Education Curriculum Framework, 2017 operationalizes CBC.
Comment #1: Even with Nacada in place, drugs are all over and accessible to children. Lack of good will from all the stakeholders. - Concilliah Indoshi, Mombasa-based Jaslika member
Comment #2: Drug abuse in schools is a menace. Where is the collective responsibility to positively socialize and re-socialize young people? our value system should be addressed. Let us be good role models. - Dr Mark Obonyo, Kenyatta University
A: Dr. Silvester Mulambe - The Education system in Kenya emphasizes on a value based education.Other interventions include; Guidelines on Parental Empowerment and Engagement.
A: Frederick Haga - I just wanted to emphasize that value-based education is at the core of the CBC so there is a lot about character building and values as depicted in our Constitution and also in our societies.
YP Agenda #3: Mental Health, Punishment & Harassment
Q1: On the issue of punishment. I guess we concentrate more on what should be and not what is. The truth is pain is getting inflicted every single day. Apart from what should be done to the teachers or anyone doing it. What is really being done? - Martin Kimiru
A: Dr. Silvester Mulambe
Corporal punishment is outlawed in Kenya
Education emphasizes on guidance and counselling
Mentorship and coaching and other alternative means of discipline besides corporal punishment.
Comment #1: For us to successfully handle issues affecting our youth I recommend a multi-sectoral approach between different levels of education from early childhood to university. Many of these issues have their foundation in the early years; matters child-rearing are at the core. - Wanjohi Githinji, Kenyatta University
YP Agenda #4: SGBV & teen pregnancies
Mundu Wa Ndegwa: Charity, Rachael and Florence are students at Serene Haven Girls, a one-of-a-kind school that offers education to teenage mothers who report to the school with their babies. They are joining this link
A: Dr. Silvester Mulambe - The Ministry of Education has developed the National School Re-entry guidelines to support the re-entry of learners who dropped out of schools-basic education institutions. The purpose of these guidelines is to provide a framework for enhancing re-entry of learners who drop out of school, including those with special needs and disabilities, in order to improve retention, transition and completion rates at all levels of basic education.
Q1: I’m glad to be part of this discussion and my question is how can we improve the self esteem of pregnant girls and teen mothers? - Rachel
A: Marygorret Mogaka
Psycho-social support for expectant girls and teen mothers
Educational and vocational training for the girls
Empowerment through life coaching programmes, lifeskills training, among others
Q2: I’m glad to be part of this discussion. My question is what part of the government is supposed to be of help with the people who want to educate without judging - Charity
Q3: I’m glad to be part of this discussion. What action is taken to parents who force their children who are pregnant to have an abortion? Florence
A: Justice Matheka: Maybe just basically to say that on the question about parents who force their children to have abortion, that is a criminal offence and it is an offence in that the action can be taken against the parent for doing that because it is an offence to do that because the child also has a right to her child. There are many people involved there, there is the child herself who is pregnant, there is the person who made her pregnant and there is the baby who has the right to be born so there is a process there so if this girl is able to get someone who can talk to her and maybe the parent also needs some help,
[Written response] Abortion is an offence under the Penal Code for the one committing and the one assisting. However it is allowed where a medical professional for health reasons recommends it. The unborn child has the right to life. Such a parent is violating the right of the pregnant child to make a decision about their own child.
If reported the parent will be prosecuted,
Q4: Great discussion. What is the MOE policy position on sex and reproductive health education in our schools? And how are teachers being equipped to handle this very sensitive topic - Dr. Purity Nthiga, Jaslika Associate, Kenyatta University
Q5: I have a question: What are the legal procedures as far as child adoption is concerned? Pauline Karungari, Jaslika Volunteer & Jaslika Learning Circle Member, Tetu, Nyeri
A: Marygorret Mogaka -Thank you Sheila, I think I can respond in writing especially on the procedure for adoption because it is a long procedure, if I start talking about it now it will take a bit of time so allow me to do it in writing. Thank you.
[written response]
(i) Legal procedures for child adoption
A person wishing to adopt a child should apply to a registered Adoption Society.
The Adoption Society will undertake a social enquiry and home environment assessment of the prospective adoptive parent(s).
If the assessment is positive, the Adoption Society will match and place a child, who has been declared free for adoption, with the prospective adoptive parent(s).
The prospective adoptive parent(s) will stay with the child for three months to bond. During the bonding period, the adoption society will be undertaking home visits to assess how the child is settling with the parent(s).
After the bonding, the Adoption Society will help the prospective adoptive parent(s) to file the application for adoption in court.
At the Court filing, the court will appoint a Guardian ad Litem for the child (friend of the child) to take care of the welfare of the child in the adoption process.
The Court will order a report from the Director of Children’s Services on the suitability of the prospective adoptive parent(s)and the welfare of the child. The Director will undertake an assessment and present to Court.
The application will be heard in Court, if the Court is satisfied that the Prospective Adoptive Parent(s)qualify it will issue a final adoption order
Registration of the Adoption Order with the Registrar General.
(ii) Who can adopt a child in Kenya?
The applicant or at least one of the joint applicants; -
Have attained the age of 25 years and is at least 21 years older than the child and has not attained the age of 65 years;
Is a relative of the child;
Is the mother or father of the child.
The following can adopt if the Court establishes there are special circumstances
A sole male applicant in respect to a female child;
Also, a female applicant in respect to a male child;
An applicant or joint applicants who has or both have attained the age of sixty-years;
A sole foreign female applicant (however, currently there is a moratorium on inter-country adoption, no Kenyan children are being adopted by non- Kenyan now)
A: Justice Matheka - These procedures are in the children act. The person adopting the child approaches an adoption agency that takes up the matter and identifies a child who has been declared free for adoption. The proposed adoptive parent has to comply with certain legal requirements and if found suitable by the agency an application is filed in court for the order of adoption to issue. The Dept of Children services also investigates the proposed adoptive parents.
Q6: Can poor parenting lead to a child being taken away from the parent? Pauline Karungari, Jaslika Volunteer & Jaslika Learning Circle Member , Tetu, Nyeri
A: Marygorret Mogaka - Yes, but the child cannot be given out for adoption as the birth parent(s) is given the opportunity to give consent for his or her children to be adopted. The child can be removed to a place of safety (foster family or institution) as the parents are helped to improve on their parenting practices.
A: Justice Matheka - Yes, as provided for under the Children Act. A parent can also be charged for neglecting their child.
Q7: Also does the government have programmes to support street children? Pauline Karungari, Jaslika Volunteer & Jaslika Learning Circle Member , Tetu, Nyeri
A: Justice Matheka - When it comes to street children, I think that Madam Marygorret can respond to that but there is a government sector or section that deals with that.
Q8. In addition to Pauline's question, what is the due procedure to be followed in order to get a paternity test? - Mutiga Macharia, Jaslika Learning Member, Tetu, Nyeri
A: Justice Matheka - For paternity tests, it depends on the circumstances - if there is a case in court, the court will make an order for that test to be done and if it is just individual and personal, the government chemist does the tests and people can also do them privately. I think that is what I would say to those questions.
[Written response]: If the matter is in court through a court order. If it is not. parties can present themselves to the lab for the same.
Q9: What procedure is to be followed by a common mwananchi in order to get a child support Court order and what are the costs involved? - Mutiga Macharia, Jaslika Learning Member, Tetu, Nyeri
A: Justice Matheka - The Hon CJ recently gazetted that there will be no costs to filing children matters. There are organizations that offer Legal Aid e.g. National Legal Aid service and one can get that free. However if you get a lawyer there are lawyer’s fees.
Comment #1: Teenage pregnancy is something that needs to be looked at because it has affected most girls but no clear guidelines. - Concilliah Indoshi, Mombasa-based Jaslika Member
YP Agenda #5: Life skills
Q1. Life skills education has been with us for some time. Could the policy makers please comment on their satisfaction with how it has been taught/developed and what is in place to make it more effective? Prof. Grace Bunyi, Kenyatta University
A: Dr. Silvester Mulambe - Lifeskills is integrated in the curriculum and is offered at all levels. Other interventions include mentorship and coaching where Lifeskills is a key component.
Q2: Have teachers been trained on behaviour management and are there efforts to educate learners on acceptable behaviour? - Dr. Florence Itegi, Kenyatta University
Comment #1: Good discussion. The MoE should lay emphasis on lìfe skills education. Girls who are well empowered are not likely to fall prey to men. They will have negotiation skills, assertiveness in making decisions. - Zelipah Muriithi